Ez-anneal
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Look at this shit!
http://www.ez-anneal.comI posted about the AMP machine about 6 months ago on another board and a lot of people commented that it needed to auto feed and have a longer duty cycle.
I like the concept of precision induction annealing for consistent results every time.
It looks like someone finally did it.I couldn't find a price and I don't think it's for sale yet, but it looks like a water cooled induction system.
(Lunch at work; I got excited and wanted to share. Pardon the inchoerent ramblings)
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I do believe this machine has potential...but there are several important questions that have been asked that he has yet to answer. He is participating in a thread on another forum...but is not being very open about how it works. He might be waiting on a patent or something...but some simple questions would not be hard to discuss without divulging industry secrets.
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Yeah. I started that thread months ago and have since stopped participating there. I just went back today to find you guys all over it already......
Thought it was interesting but you all seemed to have beat me to the punch.
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I really like the concept of induction annealing. It is the industry standard...and is just now becoming more affordable outside the industry. I even looked at assembling my own induction annealer before buying the benchsource, but I didn't want to spend the money necessary to do it right. This unit is the first I have seen with real potential...so we will see. Maybe he will let orkan borrow one to write a review on it.
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I've been in touch with him. Nice guy. Certainly did his research on the deficiencies of other units before building this one. I told him I'd review it if he wants to send me one. I'm not interested in doing a review on it if I have to send it back. I have too much money in equipment and too much time invested in reviews to having nothing to show for it at the end of it. I'm pretty selective about what I review, and this unit would be worth the time I think. Yet until I use it, it's all speculation.
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Yea, he posted a bunch of responses today or yesterday, I dunno all my days are just one long day at this point.
On his YouTube videos he mentioned a price of around 975 without the hoper and feeding system, which seems to me to be near the price of the AMP.
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I went through and looked at some of his videos. It looks pretty impressive
I was looking seriously at the AMP setup in the next month or two and I'm glad I saw this when I did.
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@rhyno said:
Yea, he posted a bunch of responses today or yesterday, I dunno all my days are just one long day at this point.
On his YouTube videos he mentioned a price of around 975 without the hoper and feeding system, which seems to me to be near the price of the AMP.
The amp requires you to buy a crap ton of special little inserts for each cartridge. NO WAY. As a wildcatter... I won't even consider that. I already hate the fact I have to do that with my giraud trimmer.
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@orkan said:
I already hate the fact I have to do that with my giraud trimmer.
I agree. I spent $125 the other day to add two calibers to my giuard.
But as annoying as it is it is worth it.
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I watched the two videos on the website and a couple more on YouTube. Not sure if it was just for demonstration purposes, but it looks like the heating element is way too high. Every case came out red hot. Watching frame by frame you can see that well over 1/2 the case is glowing red. I use templaq 750 when annealing and it melts long before the necks are anywhere near glowing red.
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The element is adjustable and the cases were overheated deliberately for the camera.
This part is just a observation gentlemen, I intend no offense.
I get wanting to save money, I just think the group logic is backwards in this instance.AMP machines cost about a grand, but as far as I know, they're the most accurate and precise system out there. Perfect repeatability every time. Even if you add 20 pilots the cost of 1500 bucks total seems like small beans for the precision and repeatability it affords.
When you're chasing precision to the point of buying a Prometheus (or other 1k+ scales) and designing your own micrometer primer seaters to limit SD, any expense towards the cause of ultimate accuracy and consistency seems like a necessary expense to me.
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@ragnarnar said:
AMP machines cost about a grand, but as far as I know, they're the most accurate and precise system out there. Perfect repeatability every time.
What proof of this fact do you have?
How do you reconcile the fact that with the AMP unit you must stop for several minutes every 20-30 cases to let the machine cool?
You assume that my objection to the proprietary and per-cartridge inserts is cost. Falsely assume I might add. Yet in the very next sentence you point out that I have a $4000+ scale and $600 priming tool, completely invalidating your previous false assumption. The argumentative tone of your posts of late, without providing any associated proof or supporting evidence of your standpoints is wearing thin.
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@orkan said:
What proof of this fact do you have?
You are correct in that I have no hands on experience with either the AMP or any other annealing machine. That statement in reference to the accuracy and repeability of the AMP machine was made based on my own inference that microprocessors are pretty accurate, as well as this:
"In order to determine the optimal annealed neck hardness, we tested multiple cartridges, brands and dies. We ran a range of hardnesses from 85 Hv to 125 Hv, and did multiple reloading and annealing cycles with each. The objective was to find a hardness that was repeatable each and every cycle.""In our testing, calibrating to 105 Hv gave the most repeatable results, and all our published settings have that target. The accuracy of our program settings has now been confirmed at competition level by many of our customers."
http://www.ampannealing.com/repeatable-neck-hardnessas well as this statement by 6.5 Guys regarding the AMP machine here:
"You can stop in the middle of a batch and come back hours or days later and the results will be consistent across that batch. You can’t say the same with propane if the temperature has changed or you have changed propane tanks."
http://www.65guys.com/weekly-gear-update-annealing-made-perfect-machine/@orkan said:
How do you reconcile the fact that with the AMP unit you must stop for several minutes every 20-30 cases to let the machine cool?
I'm a low volume reloader. Also the duty cycle is closer to 200 cases according to the AMP website
"Run time
Our new circuitry means that provided ambient temperature is around 70F/20C, the annealer can be run continuously for a minimum of 200 cases on any program setting without approaching cut out. Many customers go well beyond this."
http://www.ampannealing.com/machine-details@orkan said:
You assume that my objection to the proprietary and per-cartridge inserts is cost. Falsely assume I might add. Yet in the very next sentence you point out that I have a $4000+ scale and $600 priming tool, completely invalidating your previous false assumption.
I misunderstood you in your previous post where you said you didn't like the fact you needed to buy pilots for each case. That's what confused me, I thought price was your primary objection to the system and it didn't make sense to me because as you pointed out you have the best scale and primer tool you can have. To clarify, what is your objection? Just trying to understand.
To be clear, I'm not bashing you or your equipment. I'd own an AMP, CPS and Prometheus if I had the means.
@orkan said:
The amp requires you to buy a crap ton of special little inserts for each cartridge. NO WAY. As a wildcatter... I won't even consider that. I already hate the fact I have to do that with my giraud trimmer.
Greg, I meant no offense. Again I'm not bashing you or your equipment. I suppose would have been better off saying instead, "I don't understand why the AMP machine isn't more popular, given it's ability to produce consistent results"
I'm here with the intent to gain the skill set and knowledge needed to get closer to your level.
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It's nothing to do with "offense." It's to do with if you're going to make assumptions and maintain an argumentative tone while using terms like "group logic," you had better substantiate your position, and you better be right, lest you alienate yourself.
I wasn't aware that they had upgraded their tech to allow a couple hundred pieces of run time. Good to know.
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I apologize for lumping you in with "the group."
What is it you dislike about the AMP machine that has kept you from buying into it thus far?
I know you've said you'd love not to have to rely on propane for annealing so I'd assume you'd be all over this technology as it improved.
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duty cycle and feeding is what turned me off to the amp. It is frequent that I run 1000 pieces through my annealer and sometimes as many as 2500. Any annealer I buy will be 100% duty cycle...which with induction means it must be water cooled.
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Same here. The stoppages is the main thing that turned me off on the AMP unit. I have read several first-hand reports saying they had to stop and let it cool after 20-30 rounds. Perhaps that's been remedied, but that just doesn't cut it for me. Even if it's 200rnds, that still doesn't cut it.
Secondly, regardless of cost, the proprietary cartridge inserts and overly-complex programming requirements using the "pre-set" programs is simply something I do not want to deal with.
100% run time capability on this ez-anneal machine, no inserts required, complete adjustability, and a simple "time" setting allows a guy to get up and running quickly and get done quickly. The option for a case feeder is also quite cool.
I will be "all over" this technology as it improves, and I've been watching closely. ... but I sure as hell am not going to spend $1000 on something or recommend others do likewise until a unit shows up that has the most obvious problems facing this technology worked out. Thus far, the ez-anneal is the closest thing to that, on paper, or otherwise. If you think the AMP is all the way right, order one. Give us a review of it.
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I know this thread is on induction machines, but for my education I want to ask this...what advantages. does the machine you have Orkan and ddd, over these homemade machines I see posted all over YouTube?
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In order to answer that, I'd need to see a specific machine you're referring to. Sometimes there is no advantage. Sometime's there are huge advantages. Just depends on what we're comparing against. I've seen some pretty nice home-made machines.
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The benchsource is refined, setup, and ready to go. I don't have to source parts, assemble parts, tweak everything, and such. I plug it in and it works.
One of the selling features of the benchsource for me was that it spins the case allowing for even heat all the way around the case. There are many cheaper annealers and many homemade designs that do not spin the cartridge while it is in the fire.
The other annealer that was very close second...and I have still been tempted to buy just to try out is the Giuard mostly due to the case feeder built in. I have toyed with adding a case feeder to the benchsource...but just haven't done it yet.
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@dddoo7 said:
The benchsource is refined, setup, and ready to go. I don't have to source parts, assemble parts, tweak everything, and such. I plug it in and it works.
One of the selling features of the benchsource for me was that it spins the case allowing for even heat all the way around the case. There are many cheaper annealers and many homemade designs that do not spin the cartridge while it is in the fire.
The other annealer that was very close second...and I have still been tempted to buy just to try out is the Giuard mostly due to the case feeder built in. I have toyed with adding a case feeder to the benchsource...but just haven't done it yet.
I'll trade you a Giraud! or give you a real good deal.
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LOL. I still won't give up my benchsource yet...but have been curious about the Giuard.
I am sure you have used both. What is your take on the two machines.
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As far as annealing quality...I believe that machine should work fine. You will want different size drums for different cartridges...and you will have some time in assembling all of the parts...but it should work fine. You will also have to stay on top of feeding in order to maintain top speed. I can load 4-5 pieces at a time and then wait and load 4-5 more. This machine is single feed...but still much faster than a drill and socket.
Save yourself some headache and start out with your torch plumbed to a 20lb bottle. You will not get very consistent results for very long with the little tanks. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 25,000 rounds through my benchsource and I am still on the same 20lb tank of fuel.
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That machine does everything that you need it to do norcal, it just doesn't do it as "easily" as the bench source.
It rotates the case. You can position the flame correctly. It has an adjustable dwell time. All good things. I just prefer my equipment to be more... "polished." ;)
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Okay, I may just start ordering a piece here and there. I also have a ton of 1/4" plywood laying around, so I may build my own case too. Thanks guys.
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Just a personal opinion...but I don't really like mixing wood and flame. If you do so you might ought to keep a fire extinguisher handy. I know the flame SHOULDN'T touch the case...but stranger things have happened.
Also...If you plan to anneal more than 100 or so pieces you really either need to do it outside or get some sort of ventilation. It will give you a headache and make you feel pretty bad after about 500 rounds in a small room without ventilation. I did like orkan and installed a cheap vent-a-hood over my machine and it works great. It is also safer because if a propane line leaks it will keep the gas from building up (had that happen too-- LOL).
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Yes, wooden things on an annealing machine... not so good. ;)
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I've looked at the Anneal-eez.
But my annealign needs have been taken care of with a socket and screwdriver so far.
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I anneal in the garage with the door open so venting is not an issue. On the wood case I hear what your saying. I'll think it over.
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So as an interesting aside, the creator of the ez anneal has pm'ed me out of the blue, twice on SF and asked if I wanted a production unit.
Not sure how to take that, were this a different type of product I'd be straight up concerned, it comes off a little over eager here.
Just a heads up to everyone
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So I've been watching this guys website for updates.
It seems the ez anneal went into production on Monday.
They're asking 1k for the unit and case feeders look to be about 200 each.
