Thinking of getting a new stock
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So I've been kicking the idea around in my head about getting a new stock. I've done some reading on buttstocks bottoms needing to be flat for better rear bag use. Whereas using an angled bottom hunting style stock (like Inhave now) tends to not let the rifle slide straight back. I also need to work up a new load to switch to Lapua brass in about a month. That has me thinking that getting a new stock with a DBM would be good timing.
I'd like to keep cost around $350 for both the stock and DBM. Here's what I'm thinking and I'd like to know y'alls opinions.
My first choice was another Boyds but in the tacticool or pro hunter shape. I'd likely pay them to add a intergrated check riser, and I'd paint and bed it. Second choice would be a Magpul hunter stock. Third would be a B&C which I would have to add some type of cheek riser to myself.
Then the DBM. I'm thinking of getting the Magpul for the Boyds or Magpul stock. I read somewhere that their mags can take up to 2.840" which would be great for my stupid long chamber. Does anyone know if all ACIS style mags fit that length? I also know PT&G makes an affordable DBM but haven't looked at one.
Obviously the Magpul stock and DBM will take the least amount of work, only needing the recoil lug bedded.
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I personally like the slanred bottom buttstocks, that way I can make quick adjustments on elevation.
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Likewise. If the recoil is controlled properly, and firing position built correctly... the movement is actually quite small. Setting up a shot in the field is aided by the slanted bottom.
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@rhyno said:
I personally like the slanred bottom buttstocks, that way I can make quick adjustments on elevation.
@orkan said:
Likewise. If the recoil is controlled properly, and firing position built correctly... the movement is actually quite small. Setting up a shot in the field is aided by the slanted bottom.I'm with ryno and Orkan, I think the angled stock is more versatile. The flat/straight bottomed stocks are more useful in a free recoil technique.
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Okay so slanted stocks are good to go then. Again I did a quick read on it and the logic made sense, but so does yours.
So what else? Any other thoughts?
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Here is a link to Alpha Mags, I have 2 and have not had any problems with them; however I bought these 4-5 years ago and do not know the reputation currently. You can get out t 2.965 with these mags.
http://www.alphaindmfg.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51
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Okay, I haven't personally seen, or touched a PTG stealth bottom metal, but I haven't read a lot of negatives about them.
Chad at LRI mentioned that they were a nice unit.
Looks like they added a few more styles to choose from all around $130
http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/97-remington-700-detachable-mag-bottom-metal-dbm
TSCustoms can inlet for $100
If your looking for more space I believe Accurate Mags work in DBMs that are designed around the AI style mags, and if you buy them without the spacer they allow a COL of about 2.950"
http://store.accurate-mag.com/308winchester762x51mmboxmagazine.aspx
But I haven't been around them, I think I'll order a couple sometime since my rifle is currently at TScustoms to get inletted for a Badger DBM.
But that will all add to the cost pushing you over budget.
You might shoot the Grayboe guys a email, it looks like a Grayboe Renegade with inlet for Badger Style DBM can be had for about $400 (they don't have any in stock ATM) then you could Bed it yourself.
No experience with these stocks, but they are an offshoot of McMillan, and are fiberglass stocks.
http://www.gunstox.com/#!product-page/hu8wk/8867cc33-4ca3-0365-287b-6b00c523d2de
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I installed the PTG Stealth DBM on my rifle.
It is good to go, not a single one problem with it.
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Okay thanks for the links. I looked at those Grayboes you posted before. That's really not a bad option either.
I gotta check with my local smith and see if he inlets. He builds bench rest guns mostly. But if he does that will help. Sorry Travis.
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I want to try one, but I really want to have an adjustable cheek rest on my next stock.
If they offered one for around $450 and the quality was good they'd be hard to beat.
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Alpha type 2 mags are the ones that allow for longer loading. I loaded to 2.950" with mine. Thing is you will also need to dremel or mill the bottom of the action to allow the longer rounds to actually pass into the chamber. The hole in the bottom of the action is less than 2.950". This is true with any bottom metal.
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@rhyno said:
I want to try one, but I really want to have an adjustable cheek rest on my next stock.
If they offered one for around $450 and the quality was good they'd be hard to beat.
I too want an adjustable cheek rest. My okie rigged one works well, but I want something not okie rigged.
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I just looked up my loads current COAL, 2.825". I could gain a lot with the longer mags. Hmmmmmm
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@norcal_in_az said:
Okay so slanted stocks are good to go then. Again I did a quick read on it and the logic made sense, but so does yours.
So what else? Any other thoughts?
The logic is sound on both accounts... you just have to consider discipline. A benchrest stock is best to have a flat bottom. That is a completely static firing position. Same every time. Field positions are not so. You can run into a lot of different variables. That's where slanted comes in really handy! :)
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I was looking at the Bell and Carlson Medalist Stocks. I was looking at the Varmint/Tactical vs the Medalist Light Tactical. Looks like the hook is the only difference in the stocks.
Does anyone here use hook style stocks? If so how do you like it?
Are these really decent for the money? I know there's better out there, but I don't feel like investing $500+ for a stock that my factory barreled action is going to sit in.
Medalist Light Tactical
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/486263/bell-and-carlson-medalist-light-tactical-rifle-stock-remington-700-bdl-short-action-with-aluminum-bedding-block-system-varmint-barrel-channel-synthetic-black
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@norcal_in_az
Have you seen these:
https://www.stockysstocks.com/bell-and-carlson-tactical-medalist-style-6-adjustable-cheekpiece-target-competition-remington-700-short-action-stock.html
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@norcal_in_az
I'm definitely not a fan of butt hooks. I can run them, but I prefer the slanted style better.The new B&C adjustable is probably the best buy on a budget stock that I've seen currently.
https://www.stockysstocks.com/bell-and-carlson-tactical-medalist-style-6-adjustable-cheekpiece-target-competition-remington-700-short-action-stock.htmlStocky's is also doing these new stocks with their V-block. I've had a couple customers install other Stocky's V-block stocks with good success. I really like the ergos on these newer ones.
https://www.stockysstocks.com/stocky-sr-long-range-accublockr-laminated-vertical-grip-sporter-varmint-remington-700.html
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@mamalukino said:
@norcal_in_az
Have you seen these:
https://www.stockysstocks.com/bell-and-carlson-tactical-medalist-style-6-adjustable-cheekpiece-target-competition-remington-700-short-action-stock.htmlBeat me to it whilst I was typing!
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Yup, I think that one is going to end up being "the" budget stock setup to get.
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I'm running the M40 style, and can't complain to much, wish it had a more vertical pistol grip is all.
Not a fan of the hooked buttpad (at least on my Boyds tacticool on my Savage 22) just less length for a rear bag.
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@tscustoms said:
@norcal_in_az
I'm definitely not a fan of butt hooks. I can run them, but I prefer the slanted style better.The new B&C adjustable is probably the best buy on a budget stock that I've seen currently.
https://www.stockysstocks.com/bell-and-carlson-tactical-medalist-style-6-adjustable-cheekpiece-target-competition-remington-700-short-action-stock.htmlStocky's is also doing these new stocks with their V-block. I've had a couple customers install other Stocky's V-block stocks with good success. I really like the ergos on these newer ones.
https://www.stockysstocks.com/stocky-sr-long-range-accublockr-laminated-vertical-grip-sporter-varmint-remington-700.htmlNever seen those from Stocky's before. That looks like a very nice stock for the money. I saw they sell a unpainted one for $199. Lord knows I can paint it myself, just a matter of do I want to.
Would I want to bed the recoil lug in one of these V-blocks Travis?
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@norcal_in_az said:
@tscustoms said:
@norcal_in_az
I'm definitely not a fan of butt hooks. I can run them, but I prefer the slanted style better.The new B&C adjustable is probably the best buy on a budget stock that I've seen currently.
https://www.stockysstocks.com/bell-and-carlson-tactical-medalist-style-6-adjustable-cheekpiece-target-competition-remington-700-short-action-stock.htmlStocky's is also doing these new stocks with their V-block. I've had a couple customers install other Stocky's V-block stocks with good success. I really like the ergos on these newer ones.
https://www.stockysstocks.com/stocky-sr-long-range-accublockr-laminated-vertical-grip-sporter-varmint-remington-700.htmlNever seen those from Stocky's before. That looks like a very nice stock for the money. I saw they sell a unpainted one for $199. Lord knows I can paint it myself, just a matter of do I want to.
For sure. If weight isn't a problem, I would maybe lean towards their laminate version.
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Got this in today's email:
http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=ea086d5c44e0ba3e875838a1c&id=e2fbab1c0d&e=a8dc749621
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@mamalukino hopefully they still have that deal in a few weeks.
I know I'm getting something, not sure what yet.
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I'd like to offer some perspective for a minute. Just as a friendly reminder to all.
Once upon a time I bought several inexpensive stocks. HS Precision, B&C, Boyds, and a couple other no-names. The ONLY one I still have is on a stock rem700 22-250... and there's a distinct chance that it will go away before long. In each instance, I ended up regretting the purchase.
The cheap stocks simply do not compare to the real deal. They just do not. I wish that were not true, but it just is. If you watch the for-sale forums... you can often scrape up used mcmillan and manners stocks for a heck of a deal. If you're spending $400 on a stock, is it really a stretch to save another $200-300 and NEVER have to buy one for that rifle again?
Here's the thing; when you bed a stock, it's VERY hard to sell. .... and you can almost never get away with NOT bedding a stock. Not if you want it right. I talk to many people every week, and there is almost always a distinct lack of confidence in their equipment. They don't trust their stuff. The reasons for this are varied, but having a poor quality stock on your rifle is one sure way to cause problems. Believe me... I've been there and done that.
Just a friendly sanity check from your resident perfectionist. ;)
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@orkan said:
I'd like to offer some perspective for a minute. Just as a friendly reminder to all.
Once upon a time I bought several inexpensive stocks. HS Precision, B&C, Boyds, and a couple other no-names. The ONLY one I still have is on a stock rem700 22-250... and there's a distinct chance that it will go away before long. In each instance, I ended up regretting the purchase.
The cheap stocks simply do not compare to the real deal. They just do not. I wish that were not true, but it just is. If you watch the for-sale forums... you can often scrape up used mcmillan and manners stocks for a heck of a deal. If you're spending $400 on a stock, is it really a stretch to save another $200-300 and NEVER have to buy one for that rifle again?
Here's the thing; when you bed a stock, it's VERY hard to sell. .... and you can almost never get away with NOT bedding a stock. Not if you want it right. I talk to many people every week, and there is almost always a distinct lack of confidence in their equipment. They don't trust their stuff. The reasons for this are varied, but having a poor quality stock on your rifle is one sure way to cause problems. Believe me... I've been there and done that.
Just a friendly sanity check from your resident perfectionist. ;)
I get what your saying 100% and I'm trying to apply more of this logic to my purchases lately. But I'm also trying to balance budget with desire.
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@orkan expensive hobby for sure, you would think with technology things would go down in price.
Instead they seem to rise.
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@norcal_in_az said:
I get what your saying 100% and I'm trying to apply more of this logic to my purchases lately. But I'm also trying to balance budget with desire.
I get that. I run into the same issues myself. :) However, having been down this same road that so many folks are on with these precision rifles, I can kind of tell you how things go. Really, shooters are divided into 2 distinct categories. Of those categories there are many many subcategories, but two main categories for sure. This is how I see those categories:
Category 1 - Serious shooters
Category 2 - Hobbyists
The serious shooters, are always going to be shooting. This may not mean they get 2,000rnds per month... but what I mean is that shooting will be a part of their lives basically until they die. The hobbyists, well they tend to float from one hobby to the next, or at least they don't really take anything super seriously. If you fall into category 1, then you will SAVE a tremendous amount of money and precious time by purchasing the "all the way right" things rather than the "kind of right" things. More importantly, it will save you precious time. More than you can possibly imagine. You can buy cheaper stuff, and potentially chase ghosts forever... or buy the RIGHT stuff, regardless of cost, and solve that problem until the day you die.
The problem is that most folks tend to spread themselves too thin. They get wrapped up into the latest greatest whiz bang things, and they throw a little bit of their money all over the place. All of the things they buy are middle of the road. Not really good, not really bad. They are rarely happy with how any of it performs. If they would have consolidated that money, they could have had the baddest precision rifle in the world... and every single time they took it out, would be making people jealous of how easily they can lay down and punch things with it. I'm not saying this is YOU... but this is a trap that lots of folks fall into.
... and why not? I fell into it! I can say that no one was trying to help me avoid it though! You can't say that. ;)
That does not mean you need to buy the most expensive things. However, it does mean you need to have a complete understanding of what the things you are buying are going to do for you. Lots of people spend a TON of money on a lot of little things and half measures which will NEVER get them where they want. They'll always look on with amazement as others crank out tiny groups centered on POA, while they constantly struggle thinking it's their ability. The only people I have to explain this to are those that have never had the opportunity to shoot a truly precise rifle. There are right equipment choices, and believe me... it DOES matter. :)
@rhyno said:
@orkan expensive hobby for sure, you would think with technology things would go down in price.
Instead they seem to rise.
The value of the items is going up, but the cost in dollars is going up faster. This is due to the depreciation of our currency. Look at the price of EVERYTHING. It's all completely nuts. If you spend $20,000 on a brand new car, you are virtually assured of having a complete shitbox. It will be worth $2k within 5 years or less. I remember when $20K would buy you the most awesome 3/4 ton truck that you could find!
This has happened to all industries. Some things have become much cheaper however. You can buy an AR15 lower for like $75. Once upon a time, you would NEVER have seen that. Though that doesn't require a lot of skill to produce anymore. Things that require skill still demand a chunk of money. Stocks take a large amount of skilled labor to produce.
The real skinny comes in the form of the value, rather than the cost. A guy that buys a cheap stock, will find the secondary market flooded if he wants to go sell it. His money is worth nothing. If he keeps it, it's a virtual guarantee he will find it lacking if his skillset improves. So, the guy buying cheap stocks is screwed either way. The exception to this is if a guy already has some great rifles, and this is for a "trainer" or some secondary rifle that doesn't deserve "primary rifle" budget. That's simply sensible spending. However, this does not apply to primary rifles IF you are a Category 1 shooter. If you are going to be shooting forever, then you need to start looking at your rifles as permanent residents. When it comes to "primary" rifles... the money you don't spend, will come back and bite your ass down the road. This is as sure as death and taxes. It may not seem that way to some shooters, but that doesn't stop it from being the way it is.
We live in a "want it right now" society. So guys think that they will just buy what they can afford right now, and then later "when they have more money" they will invest in something better. The problem with that is they are always buying what they can afford right now, and not saving for the things that will actually bring value to them. As I say though, it really depends on each person's individual goals and financial situation. It's amazing how much money a person can have if you don't buy boats, motorcycles, campers, and all kinds of other stuff. People tend to want it all.
So norcal... take a good hard look at things. It might be skin deep.
Here's the real question: What are you hoping to gain from this new stock? What stock do you have now? Do you want to have a more precise rifle? If so, why? Exactly what are your goals as a rifle shooter?
If you answer those questions truthfully, it won't be hard to put a real plan together for you to achieve those goals. Between Travis and I, there isn't likely one thing you could say which we couldn't relate to. ;)
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Here's the real question: What are you hoping to gain from this new stock? What stock do you have now? Do you want to have a more precise rifle? If so, why? Exactly what are your goals as a rifle shooter?
If you answer those questions truthfully, it won't be hard to put a real plan together for you to achieve those goals. Between Travis and I, there isn't likely one thing you could say which we couldn't relate to. ;)
I guess my original thought behind getting a new stock was just skin deep. I wanted to upgrade to more of a tactical style and less of a hunting stock. Either by doing it myself or buying it, gain an adjustable cheek riser. Then the benefit of a DBM that seemed to make sense to get at the same time.
Right now I have a Boyds Thumbhole that I pillar bedded myself. Also added a cheek riser with some spacers, screws, and ABS.
Of course I want a more precise rifle. Why, because I love bugholes. Seeing 3-5 bullets stack up is a great feeling. But being honest I don't expect a new stock to make this happen alone.
For my goals as a shooter, I'm not real
sure. I know I'm not looking to be a top level competitor. But I love shooting and it's not just a hobby that I'm on at this moment. I'm always trying to improve as a shooter.
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So getting a new stock was basically to enhance the "feel" or the experience you have when shooting?
If that is the case, and it is very legitimate, then special care should be taken when selecting your replacement. You've got a cheap stock. I wouldn't go replacing it with another cheap stock. Having a quality stock thats solidly bedded completely changes the feeling of a rifle. Just a "solidness" about it. :)
Tell me more about what you don't like about your current stock, and what you want your new stock to do better.
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@orkan said:
So getting a new stock was basically to enhance the "feel" or the experience you have when shooting?
If that is the case, and it is very legitimate, then special care should be taken when selecting your replacement. You've got a cheap stock. I wouldn't go replacing it with another cheap stock. Having a quality stock thats solidly bedded completely changes the feeling of a rifle. Just a "solidness" about it. :)
Tell me more about what you don't like about your current stock, and what you want your new stock to do better.
The Boyds doesn't feel heavy enough. Its not a super light stock, but it doesn't feel all that heavy or solid either. I've gotten tired of the thumbhole for prone shooting. I've found myself just laying my thumb along side the grip now. Lastly my stock is strickly a right handed rifle. My son shoots left handed so in the next few years when he's ready I'd like him to be able to shoot my rifle. I also want to try a PRS style match, and I know weak hand shooting does come up.
The more I read on it the more I like that Stocky's stock that Travis shared.
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So what would I gain by going with this HS Precision over Stocky's in house stock?
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That HS Precision is more of a hunting stock. You are going to want something with adjustable cheek at minimum, and adjustable LOP if available.
If you are upgrading stocks because you want to enhance the "feel" and increase your ability to drive the rifle correctly... then an adjustable cheek is a requirement, not an option.
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@orkan said:
That HS Precision is more of a hunting stock. You are going to want something with adjustable cheek at minimum, and adjustable LOP if available.
If you are upgrading stocks because you want to enhance the "feel" and increase your ability to drive the rifle correctly... then an adjustable cheek is a requirement, not an option.
Duly noted.
How do you feel about add on cheek risers? Like the kydex ones?
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They are better than nothing, but tend to push your face out to the side, creating a neck and upper back fatigue problem. Stick with quality adjustable hardware.
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Bullets.com has a slightly better price on the Manners.
Never done business with them myself though.On the Manners, Mini Chassis or no Mini chassis?
T3, T4 or the T5?
T5A with adjustable cheek is not ambidextrous.
My use would be either the 600 yard MR Sunday AM match at River Bend or the Saturday 1k down at Cool Acres... One Day
http://www.rbgc.org/SportVenues.htm
http://www.coolacressportingcamp.com/cool-acres-sporting-camp-upcoming-events.html
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The manners T6A is my favorite stock. Their TF1 is similar, but in a folder.
I've ordered a few stocks from bullets.com. No issues to report.
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I happen to be in the same boat here, and let me tell you from experience a stock should not be a part to skimp on. I currently have a B&C on my 700. I also have the tacticool on my .22lr. They don't even shine a light on the ergos of a good manners stock. I have had the opportunity to get behind some of the rifles that Orkan and Travis shoot. Not only are the ergos much better, they are WAY more comfortable to get behind to shoot. The solid feel is also a confidence booster. The angle on the buttstock on the B&C makes it a beast to control the recoil, even in 6.5 Creedmoor.
I have kydex cheek risers on both my .22 and rem700. Sure they work but they are a pain in the ass. From getting them to stay in their adjustment to having to deal with them when cleaning, they are just a pain. I'm not exactly super happy with them. Like orkan said, they push your face out to the side and if I go more than a few minutes behind the rifle, my brain notices it. So instead of focusing on my shot, I'm thinking "why does my neck hurt? Ugh whatever I'll just PUT this shot in so I can get up"
One of the main things I see people do, in nearly every aspect of their lives, is make themselves uncomfortable and unhappy. I still recall the first time I got behind one of orkan's rifles. I just laid there for probably 10 minutes. I kept wondering when he was going to ask me if I was going to shoot it or take a nap. I proceeded to punch out one of the best groups of my life. I was happy, and I was comfortable.
This doesn't mean that I can't shoot nice bug holes with my current set up. When everything is right, and I let it happen, it happens. I've been behind this rifle for 2 years and I still don't get it right every single time. If I'm not fighting the ergos I'm uncomfortable. If I'm comfortable, well then I'm fighting ergos. All it does is frustrate me, making it even harder to let shots land where they should go.
Sure orkan can lay behind my rifle and punch out some little groups, and when I've had the years and round count behind a rifle like he has, I'm sure I'll be able to too...But why spend all that time, just to know in the end that a few more hundred dollars then would have gotten me a stock that wouldn't have taken so long to learn? Instead of time being frustrated I could have been happy and comfortable. What's a few hundred dollars over the course of a few years? What's a few hundred dollars compared to a few thousand rounds that it will take to get proficient enough to be happy with chosen equipment?
My next build will have everything right. I won't be throwing hundreds into a rem 700 action, I won't have 5 different scopes stuck on the top of it. I won't try another cheap bipod. I could go out right now and get another rifle, have it done up like my current and then I'll have that next caliber on my list. I won't though. Any money I spend now because I can is like buying all the right components once with a shitty component markup in price, and that is where a guy wastes his funds.
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Thank you to everyone for the input. I got a couple weeks before I pull the trigger so I have time to think about what I'm going to do.
I did email Stockys to see if their new stock's buttstock is solid or hollow. If it's solid I'm thinking of cutting into it and making it an intergrated riser.
After more thought I think this may be the last upgrade I put into this gun. I may just start saving up cash for each part and build a true custom. Keep this one as a trainer.
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@norcal_in_az said:
I may just start saving up cash for each part and build a true custom. Keep this one as a trainer.
That's as great a plan as any. I've NEVER heard someone that did an "all-the-way" build with TS Customs later say "man, I wish I hadn't done that."
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I started out with a compiled rem 700. After shooting customs I have no use for anything but a custom. There is something to be said about a rifle that is purpose built for you.
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I'm putting this on hold for a while longer now. Going to think about saving for a really nice stock that will last me a lifetime.
That and I bought something else shooting related today instead, lol.
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@norcal_in_az I know it sounds like you can't come, but one thing I'm looking forward to in the Gunhive meet is to be able to see some different stocks and rifles.
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@rhyno said:
@norcal_in_az I know it sounds like you can't come, but one thing I'm looking forward to in the Gunhive meet is to be able to see some different stocks and rifles.
Thats a great point. But yeah I can't make it. Making a trip back to CA for my eldest son's graduation from the CO academy. Thats eating into vacation time and hotel points, lol.
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This post is deleted!
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It would probably be easier (and it might be cheaper) to just get a new upper in the configuration that you want. Push out pins and put on new complete upper. I highly recommend palmetto state armory and then it will already have the forestock on it. The amount you would pay for the barrel, all the parts, and the gunsmith you could do it yourself. If you want to spend a little bit more get a BCM.
As far as adjustable stocks...I like the magpul stock, it is more comfortable on my cheek than the m4 style (military) adjustable stock. But there are other options in all price ranges.
The Aero Precision AR15 Gen 2 Stripped Lower Receiver is the ideal base for any custom AR15 build. https://www.e-arms.com/brands/Aero-Precision.html. Machined to mil-spec dimensions, the Aero Precision AR15 Gen 2 lower ensures the highest quality with the correct interface for all standard components.
The Aero Precision M5 Gen 2 AR15 lower has been improved with new features. The Increased Magwell Flare provides a sleeker look while allowing for easier insertion of magazines, and the new nylon tipped Upper Tension Screw allows you to fine tune the fit of your upper and lower receiver. This feature provides you with a tight fit in any standard AR15 upper receiver.
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This stock is for a bolt gun, not an ar so pushing pins wouldn’t work.
Also, I quit using psa when I got a lpk from them that was so far out of spec that it wouldn’t assemble. Psa makes cheap stuff, but it is not very good quality stuff.
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@dddoo7
Somebody’s up early or late depending
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Lol...I wake up in the middle of the night sometimes and play on my phone before going back to sleep.
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Kinda neat to see this bumped up. It was nice to go back and see where I was almost two years ago, and what I ended up with.
