Spring Training

  • @gash said:

    @ramirojpc personally I'd plan on driving all the way through and not stopping any where on the reservation. Get gas and food before you enter and after you exit the rez. I'm not a fan of reservations....they're full of lots of undesirable folk.

    Sounds good, I'll plan on that. Thanks for the advise.

    @orkan said:

    @dddoo7 regarding legality on the res... the law there is whatever they say it is. You think I'm kidding, but I'm not. Tribal cops are to be avoided at all costs. ESPECIALLY if you are white. Reverse racism on the res is worse than it has ever been. Keep a LOW profile when you're on the res. Some federal laws apply, some don't. Some state laws apply, some don't. No way for you to tell because if the tribal cop that has you stopped doesn't agree with the law, he'll just change it on the spot and there won't be one singular thing you can do about it.

    Ah, so it's just like the cops in Mexico near the border. In that case, I'll just avoid the reservations all together. I thought it might be neat to see native Americans, but if it's this bad, I'll pass on the idea.

    Just checked the map, I would have been going up 44 until Fort Thompson on the Crow Creek Reservation then heading east on 34 to 281 then north. The faster route according to google maps had me going through the Rosebud reservation and then through the Crow Creek res. But I am going to avoid both. From 44 I am going to take 90 east until 281 then head north. Looks like that will have me avoiding all reservations. Is this accurate? (see map below).


  • Be sure to fill up in Brewster, there is nothing between it and Ainsworth.

    That drive from north of North Platte is brutal, or it can be brutal, I enjoy it.

    And don't speed, the only ticket I got was speeding through that area, three cars on the road, me, the guy I passed, and the trooper I didn't see.

  • @rhyno said:

    Be sure to fill up in Brewster, there is nothing between it and Ainsworth.

    That drive from north of North Platte is brutal, or it can be brutal, I enjoy it.

    And don't speed, the only ticket I got was speeding through that area, three cars on the road, me, the guy I passed, and the trooper I didn't see.

    Thanks for the heads up, I'll make sure I have a full tank from Brewster on. No speeding? Damn, open road, and no speeding? What? So what's the speed limit? That's one of the things I love about driving to TX, as soon as you get into the state, it's 75mph in most highways and it's even 80mph in some areas, love that.

  • @ramirojpc 65 IIRC. Generally they won't pull you over if you're under 5 over. So a little speeding.

    You'll probably lose cell reception in that are as well, at least I did the last time I went through there, it's been a few years now.

  • i90 through SD is 80mph limit, if that helps you make a decision on a route.

  • Also, this is to people who might be flying in or anyone going through Nebraska.

    If you go through Omaha, and don't have you're CCW (make sure Nebraska recognizes it) keep you're firearms in the trunk. If you get pulled over and it's in the cab and in a case or open in Omaha they can nail you for concealed weapon.

    Otherwise for the rest of the state the best way is to leave the firearm in the cab and open the case and make it visible since it's an open carry state. Or in a gun rack.

    Omaha is the only area that has different laws from the rest of the state as far as I'm aware (and some of its suburbs) but technically as I was lasttold anyways a gun in a case that can be "reached" is concealed and they can nail you for it.

    It's a stupid law.

    If you have any questions contact the Nebraska State Patrol, they usually respond fairly fast.

  • This applies to anytime you are traveling...although probably not going to work in the indian reservations.

    If you get pulled don't have to allow the officer to search the car unless he sees something illegal out in the open. I personally will not let an officer search my car. He has no business searching my car and no reason to suspect any illegal activity. I almost always have my guns in some type of case (other than ccw). If he happens to see the case and asks what is in the case I respond that it is legal sporting equipment. That is all he needs to know.

    Many officers will freak out when they see a there is no reason for them to ever see them. The suppressor may be legal...but if the officer doesn't know that it is going to cause a lot of trouble.

    Also...the minute I am pulled over I will start recording on my phone without telling the officer. Otherwise it will be your word against his...and we all know how that will end.

    If you react in this are almost sure to get a speeding ticket or whatever you got pulled over for...but I would rather a speeding ticket than to give up my rights as a citizen.

    The best bet obviously is to drive the speed limit and obey traffic laws...but we all know accidents happen.

  • All of this is great info. That was going to be my next question, because every time I travel I always have my gun with me, so I was going to ask and look into what are the laws of the different states. I usually keep my gun in the center console in the car or truck as well as the spare mag.

  • Nebraska honors most permits.

    This map is usually up to date m, but it's wrong about South Dakota Nebraska honors it's class 2 permit or one of them.

  • @rhyno said:

    Nebraska honors most permits.

    This map is usually up to date m, but it's wrong about South Dakota Nebraska honors it's class 2 permit or one of them.

    According to the SD Permit Guide I have, NE honors SD's enhanced permit and you must be 21+ years of age.

  • @ramirojpc said:

    I thought it might be neat to see native Americans

    There, this was shot in an area you were going to be driving through.

  • When I'm heading that direction, i usually do something like this, hitting lusk along the way. I don't care for nebraska's liberal bullshit... so I stick to wyoming. Now with the 80mph on the interstate in SD, a guy can cover some ground. That area from mitchell to Huron... I'll usually take 281 north instead of what the map shows.


  • I am going to be going through Iowa (at least planning to). As far as I can tell...suppressors are now legal in that state...right? Legislation passed about a year ago?

  • @orkan Damn, well, I was way off. I guess I had this romanticized idea of the Native American people. Just as with any other people, I am sure they are a bunch of good people among them, but I just can't imagine that with 80% unemployment and multiple families living in such small houses, how their situation can improve. It's a good thing I asked, I'll make sure to stay clear of the reservations. Thanks for all the good info.

  • The only part of my trip that bothers me is my connecting flight in Chicago. My case will have a suppressor inside locked of course but just hate having to be in that area.I go from Philly to Chicago to Sioux falls then drive to Huron. Return is Sioux Falls to Dallas to Philly. I am looking forward to the class but also meeting everyone. See you in 10 days.

  • A group of us are going hiking in Havasupai in the grand canyon this year. I went a few years ago and got a little taste of what it is like. When we go hiking all I will have with me is my CCW and it will have to stay in the I won't worry as much about guns being confiscated...but it is still a concern.

    The young indians in the reservation were absolutely disrespectful and almost hateful towards visitors. Keep in mind that our tourism was paying for their lively hood. We will camp 3 nights in the campground down past Supai (10 miles from the road) and the cost after all the fees comes out to $50 per person per night. A comparable campground in the national park is about $18 per night for up to six people. There are about 100 campsites (or more) between the falls and they will average about six people per campsite. You can do the math as to what they are bringing in each year just by letting us camp there. You would think that since our money is making their little town possible they would be friendly towards us...but they are not. The young Indian attitude is about like we see with teenagers of other races that are not raised as they should be.

    Now...the older generations (65 and older) are very friendly and helpful to us. They welcome us and talk to us. When we are hiking out they tell us to come back and bring more friends next time. It is refreshing to see this attitude...but I wish it was being taught to the younger generation of indians as well as other races.

  • Just a quick reminder to make sure everyone has their firearms in acceptable condition when they arrive. Make sure you bring any of your related equipment that is required for a live fire session. Look at the first post in this thread for another equipment list.

    **Some things you should bring: **
    Ammo - at least 100rnds of it. Bring more if you plan on burning up a bunch on friday.
    Torque wrench tools (we have some for sale if you don't have any).
    Everyone should have a cleaning rod along for live fire.
    Barrel cleaning supplies.
    Bolt grease.
    A spare optic isn't a terrible idea. (not required)
    Spare mags.
    Rear bag.
    Suppressor (if you have one)
    Suppressor cover.
    Bipod. (we have atlas PSR's in stock)
    Shooting mat. (if you dont like laying in the dirt)
    Kestrel (if you want, not required)
    LRF (if you want, not required)
    Bug spray
    Rain gear
    shemagh (we'll likely be baking in the sun all day sunday)

    Saturday will be classroom only... so that will be pretty controlled. Sunday will be classroom in the morning, live fire the rest of the day outside. Use some common sense folks. May in South Dakota can be blizzard or 100 degrees. Keep an eye on the forecast for Huron SD and plan accordingly.

    Make sure your rifle is ready for action. Don't show up with a sparkly clean barrel. It will just waste time and shots. Before arriving, or on friday when we're out shooting (those of you that will be coming out shooting) you should zero the rifle to the best of your ability, clean it thoroughly, then foul the rifle back in and confirm zero with 5-20 shots. (however many it needs before it settles in) We don't need your zero drifting when we're trying to work on the finer points. It will really handicap you during training.

  • @orkan Greg, I cleaned my barrel a couple of weeks ago and then fouled it with 20 shots with the rounds I am using (boxed Hor ELD-Match 140gn ammo). I also confirmed zero at the time. What I'd like to do is re-confirm/adjust zero since I am coming from 6000 ft and I don't know what is the elevation in Huron. Plan is to have 20-40 extra shots for Fri. and 100 for the class. Thoughts?

  • Round count seems fine to me.

    You won't notice a change in zero however. At least not one that is attributed to elevation. That's part of the reason why I recommend 100yd zero's. ;)

  • ballistic calculators confirm this however I have never seen it first hand. 100 yard zero should not move due to elevation, humidity, temperature, will change a fraction of a click on the scope dial.

    Now...drop at distance WILL the paper drop charts that work at 6,000 will probably not work at sea level. Hence the benefit of a good weather meter and ballistics calculator.

    If zero changes I will bet it is more due to the shifting and handling of the rifle more than anything. It will be a good experiment. I am anxious to see what my zero does.

  • By the end of the weekend, my bet is that nearly all of your zero's will shift. ;)

  • Sounds good, I won't monkey with it then, but I still want to get some shots off on Fri. so I'll plan accordingly. Any idea until what time the shooting will go to on Fri.?

    Edit: Just trying to make sure I make it on time for shooting on Fri.

  • @ramirojpc Friday shooting generally goes a bit before sunset.

    Meal reminder:
    Friday: around 8pm, after shooting concludes, there will be dinner provided back in the classroom.

    Saturday: Breakfast, Lunch, & Dinner will be provided.

    Sunday: Breakfast & Lunch will be provided :)

    Also on Sunday @dddoo7 will be doing a short sermon before class.

    Looking forward to meeting all of you!

  • For those of you coming in friday to shoot... we'll be out there by 2pm central and will stay until about 7pm.

    Here's where you'll need to go:

    The road heading to the north will lead you to the parking area. You are not to be there and certainly not be shooting without Primal Rights staff present. Violations of this rule will be dealt with harshly.

    At 8pm we'll get together for dinner at the classroom which is here:

    Enter the south entrance of the building on the north east corner of the intersection of Dakota and 3rd St. Turn right just after you enter the main door and you'll see another door which says Primal Rights. Enter there and you'll get logged in and cleared by Primal Rights staff and given further instructions. Do not be roaming around in my building. ;)

    Feel free to trickle in around 7:45PM or so... as you'll have waivers to sign and what not. Those that will be out shooting will be with me, so we'll ensure timelines and instructions will be given as needed.

    In the interest of not being wasteful, is anyone planning on NOT eating meals with us? Sound off in here or give me a call if you are taking care of your own food please. My wife's cooking is legendary, but it's your choice. ;)

  • Friday is going to be a long day for me. I plan on shooting for a while in the afternoon, checking into the hotel, eating and crashing fairly early. I want to be GTG Saturday : )
    I will be looking forward to your wife's cooking for the remainder of the weekend for sure!

  • I am planning to leave COS no later than 5am which will put me in Huron around 3:30-4pm. Depending on how tired I am, I may also go to the hotel after I shoot and crash to be ready for Sat. morning. If I can manage it, I'll stay and eat with all you fine folks. @orkan, I am planning on eating what you and your wife provide.

  • I plan on eating what is provided as well.

    And hopefully I'll be up to shoot Friday, plan on leaving around noon should put me there about 3.

  • @orkan Greg, I have been using your setup, or at least part of it, from the Data Books article on your site for a year or so, since I saw you mention the article in the sniperforums. Anyway, I am going to make some notes pages and stick them in there in the back. The idea is that I want to take as many notes as possible during the training and then have those handy when I am at the range. However, I would like to pick your brain when I am there as to how to improve my use of the book and understanding of the data that I collect. Others may benefit from this as well. So, over the weekend I went through the article again and you mention several other templates from Shooting Voodoo, but it looks like that website is no longer available. All I find are links to it from articles or forums, but I get a blank website when going to the link. I have also Googled those templates but I am coming up empty. Could you share links or downloads to those if you have them?

  • Sadly that site disappeared long ago. I have nothing saved from it.

  • Had the day off due to being rained out.

    So I cleaned the rifle, made sure I had everything I needed.

    And loaded up the final few rounds for Friday.


    Bad news is at the end I noticed the chargemaster had drifted 1 grain.

    Luckily it was just for the ammo for Friday, and it's possible it was because I took a picture, but it makes me mad regardless. Oh well.

  • @rhyno said:

    Had the day off due to being rained out.

    So I cleaned the rifle, made sure I had everything I needed.

    And loaded up the final few rounds for Friday.


    Bad news is at the end I noticed the chargemaster had drifted 1 grain.

    Luckily it was just for the ammo for Friday, and it's possible it was because I took a picture, but it makes me mad regardless. Oh well.

    It drifted one grain or a tenth of a grain?

  • 1 whole grain.

    Most I've ever seen.

  • I plan on eating the provided meals. After seeing all those wonderful pictures and recipes there is no way I would miss. Plus breaking bread with everyone gives a chance to chat and get to know each other. If all goes to plan I will be on the ground in Sioux Falls by noon. Jump in a vehicle and head to the range. Should be there by 2;30. Looking forward to the weekend.

  • All packed and ready to travel. Thanks for the quick shipping on the tac ops bag @orkan


  • administrators

    Looking forward to meeting all of you!

  • Looking forward to it everyone. Have safe travels!

  • Y'all are either on your way or about to be; wishing I could have attended and met with you folks.
    Have fun, be safe and enjoy that scrumptious food!!:smile:

  • What he said, have lots of fun!! :wink:

  • administrators

    Thanks to all who came out it was another great group! It was nice to meet all of you and to finally put a face to some of the names.

  • wUeALKDh.jpg

  • Awesome weekend. I really enjoyed meeting all you guys. I have a lot of shooting principles to work on and I am sure I will see improvement from these classes. A huge thanks to Primal Rights for organizing the class, providing the location for the class, providing the instruction, providing the targets and setting them up and taking them down, providing many meals all free of charge!

    A special thanks to @gash for providing awesome food!

  • Yea, this was a pretty amazing experience.

    The food that @gash provided was amazing.

    I'll write my thoughts out a little better when I've digested it all a little more.

  • @dddoo7 great meeting you. Thank You for Sundays service.

  • It was great to meet all. Greg hands down best instruction I have ever received. Now it is up to me to do perfect preparation to prevent piss poor performance. Repitition is the mother of all learning. I believe the techniques will help me break through the plateau I am on. To become more consistent a better shooter more first round hits and to understand the why through proper snapshot. Thank you
    @gash thank you for the fantastic food. It was wonderful. It was nice getting to
    meet also.
    Greg, Josh and Travis thank you for an amazing Desert Tech it is a hammer. Not to mention the unbelievable service
    Getting a 6.5 delivered to me in 10 days.
    Thank you

  • @mamalukino

    Since I knew you wanted to be here for this event I figured I would shoot at least one target for you. Everyone else joined in as well.

    Being as we all had our centerfires, I didn't think 914cm was fair, so we shot at 9144cm.


  • @brittel Thank you!! I am glad everyone had such a great time.

  • Very nice meeting all of you! I hope you all had safe travels home. It was my pleasure to cook the food! I'm glad you all enjoyed it :)

    @mamalukino you were greatly missed! Hope you can make it next time!

  • @tpk936 said:


    ^ Josh. No justin here. ;)

    Thanks for the kind words, and it was excellent to meet all of you as well. I had a great time. I hope everyone was able to take something positive away from it all.

    ... and Ramiro, just so we're clear, I saw your savage fail to feed once. :)
    The statement of no savage making it through the course without a stoppage remains intact.

  • Outstanding training & Awesome food! Thank you very much Greg & the Primal Rights staff!
    I really enjoyed meeting everyone from the forum that was there also : )

  • If any of you want to write up a testimonial for the new website, it would be welcome. :)


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