I HATE CHINA MADE TOOLS
-
So...as most of you know I process brass for people. One of the things that I do is covert 223 brass to 300 blackout. In order to do so I have a dillon RT1500 which is made to completely trim the entire 1/4" or so of brass off the top of a 223 shell in one pass every time the handle of the press is pulled. It will do that...but it is slower than I am happy with so I rough trim the cases to get them to within about 0.020" before running them through the dillon fine trimmer.
I have been using a harbor freight 2" cut off saw with a jig that someone made (can't remember now who...but the jig is great). I have about 30,000 pieces of brass through this $30 saw so It has done great and earned its keep for a $30 saw. Problem is that the saw is belt drive and the belt is finally worn out and slipping. I think no problem...just order a new belt and be back in business...but it seems that HF does not offer a belt and I can't find one for sale that doesn't ship from hong kong (or similar).
No problem. $30 isn't gonna kill me so I buy another saw...put the new head on my custom modified base (modified with sawzall and drill) and go to work on another set of brass. I make it to about 700 pieces and the new motor is already smoking. At about 784 I stop for a while and run the ones I have done through the 1050 to let it cool. When I come back the saw seems fine...for about another 150-200 pieces and it is smoking again.
I know these are cheap tools...and not really made to last...I just wish someone made one of these 2" cut off saws with replaceable belts, 100% duty cycle motor that was running about 3x's the HP that this one is. However...every "quality" saw I have found runs larger blades which will slow me down in the cutting process.
Ok...rant over...I'm just frustrated. At least I now have a good belt to put back on my old saw and finish up...and HF will replace the new saw since it is less than 3 months old (more like 3 days).
-
I think that's a reloadamizer jig. It has a little ball detent on it to hold the case in position, right? I have the same one and would have paid double for it. I really need to upgrade to a progressive for making my ammo. The chop/form/trim/ream method is really getting old.
Out of curiousity how do you have your 1050 set up for forming? With the ammo background checks now made law in California I figure it's time to start reloading pistol and AR fodder as well.
-
I rough cut on this little piece of junk saw. The jig is great. It does have a detent and I have never had a problem out of it. It cost almost twice what the saw did...and like you said was worth every penny. When the saw is working right I can run just shy of 2000 per hour through the jig...and with the way I have it set up it separates the scrap cut off and drops the good piece into a 5 gal bucket on the floor.
Station 1 on the 1050 is a lee decapping die. I am in the process of switching over to a dillon 45 colt die...but want to use up all of my lee decapping pins first. believe it or not dillon decapping pins are cheaper...and the pistol dies are spring loaded which decreases the number or retained primers that just get mashed in with the swager.
Station 2 is the swaging station. factory setup as on all dillons
Station 3 (priming station) is empty
station 4 (powder station) is empty
Station 5 is the size/trim station. I have a GSI trim die that I have custom shaped to allow it to feed faster without crushing cases. It has an RT1500 on top of it. don't even mess with the RT1200 for blackout...it just is not beefy enough.Station 6 is empty
Station 7 is a custom die with 30 cal expander to round out any mis-shapen necks. This eventually will be a dillon 308 die as they have a carbide expander so I won't have to pay special attention to spraying lube in the case mouths.The 223 processing toolhead is almost identical except it has an RT1200 and a modified dillon die running in station 5.
With it setup like this I can outrun the case feeder as long as everything goes right. I don't use a autodrive for three reasons...one...if something goes wrong the autodrive keeps going. two-- It voids dillon's warranty (I trade up presses every year to keep it in warranty). Three-- I can run faster without the auto drive. They will run either 900 or 1200 cases per hour and I am running significantly faster than that. I can't load that fast...but processing that fast is no problem.
I just finished running another 1500+ through this evening for a guy on snipers hide. They will ship out wednesday after they are tumbled and annealed.
This is not a great setup for precision shooting...but for bulk loading and shooting it works fine.
-
I hear you. I too have absolutely no tolerance for poor equipment.
-
@orkan said:
I hear you. I too have absolutely no tolerance for poor equipment.
You wouldn't have a suggestion for a quality replacement would you? I don't want to use abrasive wheels, but would be fine with a larger HSS blade as long as it wasn't just huge.
-
Unfortunately not. I haven't needed to take that kind of drastic action on cases in quantity yet. ;)
-
Maybe one of the smaller benchtop band saws will work.
-
ddd, do they make an air powered one? That's what I would be trying to find if I were doing this kind of thing. Air tools are a LOT more reliable than electric stuff.
... or maybe something like this: http://amzn.to/2a0k57W
-
Another idea...
Make a custom fixture to slide them through a band saw. If the fixturing was right, you could do 10-20 in a single push. Maybe more.
-
'
I tried an idea similar to this one. Mine was a little "rougher"
It works, but I think the chop saw is faster
-
Hah! Lookee there. That's kinda what I was thinking. :) The one in my head was made out of aluminum and a lot easier to get cases in and out of. ;)
-
Time is the big factor with a jig like that. It takes too long to fill the jig. I also tried a drill press with a push through block fed by a case feeder...but the case would spin in the block and not cut. Higher rpm might help as the drill press is slow and the blade needs to run about 8000 rpm. I might experiment with a router motor if I can find one slow enough. Max rpm on the blades is 10,500 and I really don't want one flying apart, but the 1+ HP would really be nice.
-
I'm considering trying this.
http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx/honey-badger-trimmer-adapter/34/
It would allow me to sell one of my dillon trimmers as it would completely replace it. I'm just not sure that it will do what it says it will. It is one thing to shoot a video running that fast with 20 cases. It is completely another thing to run 1000 through in an hour and being able to evacuate the chips without causing a jam. I don't know. I may call and talk to them tomorrow.
-
http://store.titanweapons.com/titan-brass-trimmer-adapter-kit/
Wanted to link this one too, same idea as the honey badger, but you don't need a lath to set it up. Found it looking around for trim options for 300 blackout on a Dillon 650, looks to be same idea as the honey badger.
-
Holy balls! That's impressive!
-
I think they use the same router, so they should both trim at about the same rate.
The honey badger one needed to be indicated in a lath to be set up correctly. This one seems simpler and comes in a kit.
Also found this, which will allow swaging on a 650 (they make a 550 model too). Obviously a 1050 with a built in one would be better, but for me low volume this may be the way to go, and it'll save the expense of the caliber conversion on a 1050
-
Yeah, the honey badger one looked pretty complicated. This thing looks mega simple.
-
According to what I have read they are essentially the same. I called and talked to the guy and there are some issues I have with the system.
It will not fully trim in one stage because the brass will spin. That means you will need two toolheads ($200 each for 1050) and two trimmer adapters if you want to leave them set up ($150 each), two trim dies ($150 for Dillon carbide), and really two routers if you want a complete setup ($160 each). He said the end mills only last 10,000 rounds so you would need a boring bar for volume ($140 x's 2) as well.
Now...with all of this you can run about 2000/ hour through each stage. That comes out to 1000/ hour for both stages not counting for any change over.
With my setup I can run 2000/ hour through the chop saw and 2000/ hour through the press/trimmer I have. That means that I am not going to get any faster with all of that equipment unless I buy two 1050's (one for each stage) and autodrives for each press ($1600 for the forcht that runs 2000/hr).
I still think my best bet is to build a better mini chop saw that will not break down. I don't want to invest another $5000 in tools even if it will make it twice as fast...and I sure don't want to invest $1000+ to run the same speed.
Btw-- Dillion has an awesome warranty on the 650 and it will be voided if you use the swager. If you want to swage on the press you really need the 1050. Otherwise the Dillon 600 is the way to go even if it is slower.
-
Another saw bites the dust. This one lasted about 2 months and roughly 4000 rounds. Better than the last...but still not satisfactory. At least it is still covered under their 3 mo warranty. I will let them replace it until they give me one that lasts for 3 months...then when it breaks I will look at other options.
I do like a lot of the options listed above...however I am not willing to sacrifice speed. I can run 100 rounds through the chop saw in under 3 min...which is almost impossible through most other setups. I don't have air in my reloading room and although I have a good compressor it is a gas compressor in my truck and I don't want to have to start it up every time I run brass.
I've been thinking on this for about 3 months now and have not come up with any real good ideas yet...but I will keep looking. I am considering putting a chop saw together myself using a router motor, a heavier belt, and good bearings. It would be much stronger.
-
I still say you're going to have to go air powered if you want reliability.
-
might be worth buying another compressor. It would be handy for other things too.
-
Any time I've been around shops that need a lot of hand tools... I always hear them cussing the hell out of their electric stuff and praising their air powered kit.
-
@orkan the good electric impacts are nice.
Don't beat the air tools buy a lot more portable.
-
@dddoo7 what about something like this.
https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G8183-2-Inch-Angle-Grinder/dp/B0000DD72K
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-1-2-Angle-Grinder-Stand/G8183?utm_campaign=zPage
-
I have seen that and might try it...but the reviews are not great. I think I can build one that will be much stronger (probably overkill) and more precise for about the same price...it is just taking the time to do it.
-
I revisit this thread every time I burn out another harbor freight saw. This last one lasted 3 months and two weeks...exactly two weeks past the warranty. I decided with this one to trim no more than 200 at a time and then run those 200 through the 1050 and let the saw cool. It did allow it to last longer...but just long enough to run out the warranty.
Here is what I am working on now. Still has some bugs to work out...and it looks crude but I think it is going to work. It is a similar design to another one I saw on some forum. I can eventually add a motor and automate the thing...but for now pushing the stick will still be much easier than the HF saw was.
-
Great idea right there. :)
-
It is a good idea...however it is not my original idea. I just used someone else's design. I tried to buy one from them and they gave me some info on how to build it instead of selling me one.
Here is take 2. Drill press is at full speed and it works much smoother now. Case feeder is mounted. I can trim as fast as the feeder will feed them. Some say these feeders are 2400 pieces per hour but I believe them to be closer or 2000. It is still much easier and faster than the ol mini chop saw and jig.
-
Next step is a wheel and motor on a rheostat to run the push rod for me so I can do something else.
-
That is badass! and I bet it will last a lot longer than your HF China saw.
-
I rough cut about 4000 rounds this morning. It will do 1000 rounds in 22 minutes...effortlessly. 1000/22 minutes is as fast as the case feeder can go...which is the limiting factor here. It would cut twice a fast if the feeder could keep up.
1000/22 minutes comes out to over 2,500/hour! I can live with that...and I don't have to worry about burning out a china made toy.
-
Linear servo's, pushing to the same position, timed in between one another so one actuates the other, pushing from two separate case feeders.
-
I have actually thought of this...problem is I would have to buy more case feeders. Very possible in the near future...but not now.
-
You have children. Set up a tube, and have them feed the tube. lol
-
Your cutoff saw may well have a "duty cycle"; i.e., so many minutes on followed by so many minutes off to cool down. Exceeding the "on" duty cycle can lead to exactly what you're experiencing.
Something that may help is to have a fan blowing on the motor to help keep it cool. It can't hurt.
-
You are probably correct. I never read the manual. I am of the persuasion that if I have to wait on tools they are not built right.
I still have the last cut off saw I bought. I think it was the 5th one. I am currently using my drill Press with a homemade jig. I can cut brass faster than the Dillion case feeder can feed them. The Dillion case feeder feeds right at 2400/ hr. I am also feeding Brass by hand...so the last batch I ran through was ran at about 4000/hr...and the drill Press never even got warm.
I eventually want to go to a two case feeder system which will obviously cut twice as fast. If I put one casefeeder on each side I can cut both with a pull and with a push stroke.
-
@orkan All that kid needs is his middle finger up.He looks pissed off.
-
@dddoo7 said:
You are probably correct. I never read the manual. I am of the persuasion that if I have to wait on tools they are not built right.
I still have the last cut off saw I bought. I think it was the 5th one. I am currently using my drill Press with a homemade jig. I can cut brass faster than the Dillion case feeder can feed them. The Dillion case feeder feeds right at 2400/ hr. I am also feeding Brass by hand...so the last batch I ran through was ran at about 4000/hr...and the drill Press never even got warm.
I eventually want to go to a two case feeder system which will obviously cut twice as fast. If I put one casefeeder on each side I can cut both with a pull and with a push stroke.
Sounds like you have a system now that suits your needs. That's a LOT of cases but I know a commercial operation involves volumes that normal reloaders don't have to contend with. I hope you get your two feeder system set up soon.
