New CPS is here!
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So...look what arrived today! I pulled it out of the box and played with it a little bit. First impressions are pretty good!!!
Every piece on this thing is precision machined and fits together like the plate on the side of an old s&w revolver. It is very solid...nothing is cast and the only plastic I see anywhere is the knob. Anodizing is great. I can't wait to get this thing mounted to the bench and try it out!
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Congratulations, I'd say "can't wait to see your review" but I haven't seen anyone who used one actually complain about things.
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I just turned green. Congratulations man those CPS are beautiful....tool porn.:laughing:
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So...I ran about 150 pieces of 308 through this primer this afternoon...and overall I am very impressed. It took me a few minutes to get the rhythm down, but after a few minutes I am confident that I could prime 500-600 pieces per hour. In comparison the coax will prime about 150 pieces/hour. After priming these 150 pieces I realized that I did all of my priming for the next month or so in just a couple of minutes...and after 150 I wasn't even bored with it. 500 or even 1000 pieces might start to get a little boring, but still would not be a difficult task with this machine.
This machine is effortless. The slide that carries the primer is smooth and requires almost zero force to move meaning that if there ever was a miss-fed primer you would instantly know something was wrong. The handle is just the right length to allow you to feed the next primer with your thumb and index finger without ever letting go of the handle. I can feel the primers seat and know which primer pockets were a little loose and which ones were normal.
The price is the only difficult thing for me...but after using it I am glad I have it and it is worth every penny! The thing is...I reload for precision, enjoyment, and the satisfaction of doing it myself. I don't enjoy priming brass...so this is one machine that makes the loading process just that much more enjoyable. It is kind of like the difference between a poulan chain saw from walmart and my 7hp 660 Stihl. You really don't know how incapable the poulan is until you have run the Stihl. Once you use the Stihl it is worth every penny and you wouldn't ever want to go back to the poulan.
In my opinion the coax press is about the only machine that comes close to the CPS as far as seating the same every time...problem with the coax is that there is no way to adjust the depth and it is VERY slow in comparison. I now pity those who prime on the coax (like i previously did). I have heard others say that they prime in front of the tv, but with this machine your priming task is done in a matter of minutes...so there is no need to even carry everything into the tv room.
Change over to another shell holder or even changing primer size can be done in under a minute (probably under 30 seconds if I tried). Shell holders are cheap. I got an entire set of 11 that will work for most every common caliber for $15.
This is one machine that I am glad to have on my bench. It is the ultimate in precision, it is very fast, and it is American Made!!!
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I am working on a detailed review of this thing for you guys....but I was curious as to actual speed of this thing. I took 100 rounds of virgin 223 brass and 100 primers still in the sleeve. It took me 1:43 to unbox the primers into a tray and load them into the tube on the machine. It then took me 5:05 (5:04.67 to be exact) to prime all 100 cases. If you account for loading the tubes and priming the brass that works out to 6:48/100 or 882/hour. That means that I would have time to drink a coke between every couple hundred rounds and still prime 500-600 per hour.
Now...If one was so inclined to purchase a Dillon tube loader to go along with this machine then it would knock 1:43 off of every 100 rounds and would yield somewhere in the neighborhood of 1180 rounds primed per hour. Stay tuned for my review and I will show how easy it is to set this up to run with a Dillon tubes and therefore compatible with the Dillon tube loader.
Like I said earlier...this thing will prime a months worth of brass in no time at all. Think of me next time you are priming on your press!
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Thanks for the update!
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I'm going to swear and cuss at you next time I prime brass.
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@norcal_in_az said:
I'm going to swear and cuss at you next time I prime brass.
I'll smile and chuckle at the thought of you priming on a press next time I use the CPS. :)
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Full Review:
I started reloading a few years ago for a couple of reasons. First, I wasn’t happy with the consistency of factory ammo, and second, I wanted each round to cost less. I started out on a hand-me-down Rock Chucker kit...and it worked...but it was painfully slow. I have slowly upgraded my kit gradually to the point where I am just about satisfied with it. I do all of my precision sizing on a Forster Coax with custom Whidden dies. I got tired of tumbling in walnut media...so I built a large SS tumbler that works much easier and better. About 18 months ago I got tired of throwing powder and trickling each charge...so I bought an RCBS Chargemaster. I started annealing my brass to get more consistency and life out of it...and ended up buying a Benchsource annealer to save time and give me more consistency. I got tired of trimming by hand on an L.E. Wilson trimmer...and then still having to chamfer and debur every piece of brass...so I bought a Giuard trimmer. Each of these tools have been expensive...but save massive amounts of time and frustration while reloading. I quickly would buy each one of them again. Really the only phase of precision loading that was tedious and frustrating was priming. I have seen Primal Rights competition primer seater (CPS) for a while now...but just couldn’t get myself to pull the trigger on one. Well...I have now had one for a couple of weeks and it is has also become an indispensable tool on my reloading bench.
I previously was priming on the top of my coax press. The coax is very precise at priming and although it doesn’t have any adjustments it will seat the primers consistently every time. However...the coax is very slow at priming. Each primer had to be set in the press individually. Priming had become the one thing that was really tedious and was slowing down my reloading process. I needed something different...and had previously used a bench mounted RCBS priming machine, but was not satisfied with the reliability or the consistency produced. The hand primers just were not going to cut it because I wanted to be able to prime several hundred at a time if necessary without wearing out my hand. The CPS provides the precision, speed, and effortlessness that I was looking for.
The CPS came well packaged in custom Styrofoam. It comes with the machine itself, slides and stems for large and small primers, one large tube and one small tube for primers, and a detailed instruction manual. The only thing that you will need to get in addition is the appropriate shell holder for the caliber you intend to prime. This unit does not use standard press shell holders, but instead it uses shell holders that are designed to be used with the Lee or Sinclair priming tools. I bought the package of 11 Lee shell holders that will cover most common calibers for around $15 shipped. Despite the warnings on the cover of the manual I did as all good American men do...and cast the manual aside and started in using the CPS. I did go back and read most of the manual later, but it is so simple to use that the manual is really not necessary.
The quality and workmanship of the CPS is amazing as well. Everything (except the derlin knob, and the tool steel seating stems) is either machined aluminum or stainless...and it is high enough grade stainless that the neodymium magnet will not stick to it. Even the bolts holding the CPS together are stainless. The machining on the CPS is very precise as well. Every corner has a machined chamfer and every surface has been milled smooth. It fits together like the side plate on a late 70's S&W revolver. The anodizing is a nice touch as well. It color codes the primer slides to keep from mixing them up. I got curious and took the whole thing apart to see the inside...and it is very well built. I cannot imagine wearing it out and for sure cannot see it breaking. The thing is solid metal inside and out and all of the internal parts are overkill for the forces they will be facing.Changeovers are simple as well...even if you are changing primer size. Just remove the two bolts holding the shell holder down and that will release the shell holder and the primer slide. Then pull the stem out and replace it with the other stem. Then choose the appropriate slide (large is black, small is red) and the appropriate shell holder and replace the two retaining bolts. I did a complete change over (including primer size) in 38 seconds. A little trick I have found on my reloading bench...I keep a small neodymium magnet on each of my tools that requires small parts or wrenches. I put one on the CPS to store the seating stem that is not being used.
The adjustments on the CPS are pretty straight forward. Just gently seat a primer and turn the adjustment knob until the handle quits moving. That will get it close and then with a caliper you can measure and adjust it up and down to your liking. The clicks on the adjustment knob are very positive clicks. It will not turn unless you mean for it to. Each click is right at 0.001" allowing for precise placement of the primer.
The handle on the CPS allows for plenty of leverage to make seating a primer effortless, but the feel is there as well. It is easy to tell whether a primer pocket is loose or tight based on the effort required to seat it. The primer slide is self contained even if it is removed from the machine and it moves effortlessly. It would be immediately evident if a primer didn’t feed right. One would have to be a moron to crush or set off a primer with this slide. The primer slide isolates the primer being seated from the stack of primers as well which is a good safety factor. I see no possible way that a primer being seated could set off the stack in the tube. That being said...one would also have to be a moron to set off a primer while seating it. You can feel everything with the CPS, so it will be obvious if something is not feeding or seating properly.
The first time I used this machine I estimated that it would be able to prime 500-600 cases per hour. This morning I had 100 cases to prime so I decided to time it and see how long it actually took. It took me 1:43 to unbox the primers onto a tray, load them into a tube, and onto the CPS. It then took an additional 5:05 to prime the 100 cases. That means that the CPS will prime 100 cases in roughly 6:48 seconds. The math works out to 882 per hour! I have not been using the CPS very long either and fully expect those times to come down the more I get familiar with it.
Now...this machine comes with Hornday style pick-up tubes. I prefer the Dillon style because I am used to them and have plenty of them. I have found that if you take a Dillon magazine tube (The one that goes in the press...not the pick up tube) and pull the plastic end off of it that it will fit perfectly into the top of the CPS. That allows one to load the standard Dillon tubes without any other modifications and then just dump them into the magazine tube as one would do with a Dillon press. The advantage of this is that the process can be even faster if the CPS is used in conjunction with a Dillon tube filler. That would eliminate about 1:43 per hundred which would work out to about 1180 primed rounds per hour!!! While the speed is great...the wonderful thing is that the CPS will prime at these speeds without wearing out your hand.
I am very happy with the CPS and the time and effort it will save in precision reloading as well as the precision that it brings to the bench. I don’t regret it and won’t be getting rid of it any time soon.
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Thanks for that review 3d, that is certainly a beautiful piece of functional engineering.
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I had trouble seeing a priming tool being worth that kind of money but after putting my hands on it this weekend at my brothers there is no doubt in my mind that it would be worth every penny. Every piece is machined with extreme precision and it is an awesome piece of equipment.
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I had a few people asking for a video. This is 100 rounds of 223. The primer tube was already loaded...but everyone knows how to do that.
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@dddoo7 Thanks for the video you did a great job showing it off. Looking forward to any other review/update/video you might put out.
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Nice smooth rate of ~1132/hour if a guy has enough primer tubes filled. Nice work!
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I find it's easier handing one piece of brass at a time.
Now I'm going to have to put out a video to see if I can beat your time. lol
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I was just experimenting with two at a time. My first run with one at a time was actually about 10 sec faster.
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So I just put a stop watch to me priming 100pcs of 300BLK. From start to finish, including loading the tube; 6 minutes 34 seconds.
... and I wasn't really "trying" to push hard either. That was fairly leisurely. I stopped a couple times to move a plastic bin around.
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Im gonna have to try again. My current best time including loading primers is 6:48.
I think I might order some Sinclair shell holders. I can see the smoother ones working faster and easier.
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@dddoo7 said:
Im gonna have to try again. My current best time including loading primers is 6:48.
I think I might order some Sinclair shell holders. I can see the smoother ones working faster and easier.
I was using a lee. ;)
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What is the best depth to be seating the primers at? I watched the video, is backing off of the max .003 the rule of thumb? Thanks for any info.
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It really depends on what you're going for. Some like the stop as the anvil touches the bottom of the primer pocket. Others like to crush the anvil and seat the primer cup to the bottom of the primer pocket. My personal choice is to compress the anvil around .002" - .004" max, though that measurement is dependent upon the specific primers and brass you are working with.
Using a depth mic, or the back of your caliper, measure the primer pocket depth. Then take a primer and measure the thickness across the top of the anvil to the bottom of the cup. Next measure from the bottom of the cup to the top of the cup. These measurements will tell you how far the anvil sticks up above the cup, how thick the cup is, and how deep the pocket is.
So if you measure .125" deep primer pocket, and .120" from anvil to bottom of cup, seating the primer .005" below flush will give you seating to "touch" the primer anvil. Any measurement farther below flush will compress the anvil into the primer pellet. Most anvils seem to stick up anywhere between .008" and .015 thousandths.
Which way is "right" seems open to discussion. I believe that if you compress the primer anvil too much, it may crush the pellet, which may fracture it, causing inconsistent ignition. So I like to compress it just a bit, but not so much as to cause potential damage. This has seemed to work very well for me.
