McMillan opens new company for mid priced stocks
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It's called Grayboe and they intend to sell to companies and individuals, at a lower price then McMillan stocks.
http://www.ammoland.com/2016/06/ryan-mcmillan-mcmillan-group-officially-announce-launch-grayboe-llc/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=decb2b7ad8-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-decb2b7ad8-20820973#axzz4CKLLSnw4A5 style stock for $349
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They have to be better than the magpul and are at a similar price point. Might be interesting for a budget build.
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I see they only have the Remington inlet at present; would be nice to see all 3 of the Howa inlets.
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@mamalukino yes, but I believe they only just started selling stocks this month. Send them an email and let them know your interested.
The fusion looks right up my alley, but I don't know anything about them, quality, how they're made, etc.
I sent an email to see if the buttstock is hollow, i hope it's not since I'd like an adjustable cheek piece, and that stock with a kmw loggerhead might be nice.
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Great value for the dollar being represented there.
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@rhyno I sent them an email inquiring to future inlets, per your suggestion. Will post when an answer arrives.
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Good news! The guy I emailed said that they are solid in the buttstock.
That means something like a KMW loggerhead should install no issue.
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Precision Rifle Media podcast interviewed Ryan McMillan a few weeks ago who opened Grayboe. Different company but licences the rights to make the A5 from McMillan ( Good thing about being a McMillan) and produce them for less.
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Well I guess that settles that. I was considering switching to either a Boyds Tacticool or Magpul later this year. Guess I'll spend a little more and get the Renegade. Being they're here in Phoenix I wonder if I can handle one or even pick it up from their plant.
Anyone know what the stock is inletted for in the mag well? Is there a drop in DBM kit or is it just the normal Remington hinged plate?
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@norcal_in_az said:
Well I guess that settles that. I was considering switching to either a Boyds Tacticool or Magpul later this year. Guess I'll spend a little more and get the Renegade. Being they're here in Phoenix I wonder if I can handle one or even pick it up from their plant.
Anyone know what the stock is inletted for in the mag well? Is there a drop in DBM kit or is it just the normal Remington hinged plate?
Not a good one.
In my opinion...just get a bottom metal made for either a M5 or surgeon footprint and get a smith to inlet it for you. the BDL inlet is really too small for mags.
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I dunno, I see they list an inlet for DBM, but there's many different styles, and it doesn't specify which.
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If they could bring the A5 style with an adjustable comb for about $450 they'd kill a lot of other things. I wouldn't be surprised if that never happens though as that would possibly cut into real McMillan A5 sales.
This new Bell & Carlson https://www.bellandcarlson.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=1118 is pretty easy to get behind. Unfortunately not inlet for DBM and likely never will be from the factory, but we can do that here for $100!! I've got one on my 40X and I really like it. The cheekpiece hardware is almost a direct clone of KMW but without the ability to move side to side. Having the E-clip grooves to save a height setting sure is handy.
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@tscustoms huh, I can't remeber seeing that model Bell and Carlson, though personally id be more interested in it if it had some side to side adjustment.
Maybe I'm just setting up wrong but I always have to tilt my head to look through the scope. On my Versa Max moving the stock to gI've me some cast off fixed the issue so I've always wanted to try it on my rifle, or something similar.
How much would it be to install the KMW Loggerhead?
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@rhyno It's a very new stock for them. Been out around a month tops.
We don't do KMW installs.
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So I was on the sight again today looking at things, looks like you can get semi non inletted stocks.
Maybe these could be inletted for a Howa? I'm not sure it says Remington Tang, so maybe not.
http://www.gunstox.com/#!grayboe-flat-tops/g7wg2
They are basic, no inlet, no buttpad, no paint, but they're $220.
You would have in letting costs on top of that, but your inlet would probably be a lot better.
@tscustoms is it possible to inlet for other actions with something like this?
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@rhyno I emailed them to see about those being able to be inletted for a Howa. I'll post their response.
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The only thing that came to mind was cost, if it costs to much to inlet for something it may be cheaper to go with a Manners or McMI'll an that comes with a Howa inlet.
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@rhyno said:
The only thing that came to mind was cost, if it costs to much to inlet for something it may be cheaper to go with a Manners or McMI'll an that comes with a Howa inlet.
I would agree completely here.
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I wrote:
Subject Flat tops
Message Can these be inletted for the Howa SA? Thank you, MRThey wrote:
Thank you for your inquiry. I posed that question to the folks at Grayboe and this is the response:"Yes but it’s going to require some skilled gunsmith work and a complete bed job and contouring the stock."
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Best regards,
Ladd Hunter
Gunstox.com
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So the other day I was able to get behind a buddies rifle and shoot it a bit. It had a McMillan A5 on it.
It felt awseome, much better then what I had.
So after some thinking I called Travis up and asked if he had started in letting my stock for the bottom metal, he had not so I asked him to hold for a little bit.
I found a Grayboe Renegade in stock online and ordered it and had it shipped to Travis, and it should arrive sometime next week.
The early reviews on Snipershide have been favorable, and there is a guy on there that can install a KMW loggerhead on the cheek piece for a decent price, still keeping the cost slightly lower then a McMillan.
I should be able to modify the LOP to my needs and insall flush cups if I want.
So yea, when it's done (if we're not in the middle of harvest ) I'll let you guys know what I think.
And maybe Travis can say what he thinks of the construction, he's around more stocks then I ever will be.
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Looks like Remington is coming out with / came out with a rifle that is in a Grayboe already.
https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-american-wilderness-rifle
Costs to much though.
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at $1150 MSRP and probably $1000 street price it will be a direct competitor for the 5R and 700P. Maybe the stock will be better than the B&C and HS precision.
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Yea but it looks like a Sporter weight barrel.
It does come Cerakoted so there's a little bit of cost.
It looks like it'll compete with the Sendero and then it's probably a better deal.
Long action only ATM.
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true...it really is just a hunting rifle then. I didn't notice the pencil contour.
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When compared to the Sendero and Mountain LSS it lands about in the middle for weight, and costs a bit less then both.
The mountain lss specs at a pound lighter with a bell and Carlson stock and the Sendero is about a pound heavier with the H&S and thicker barrel.
Interesting though, hopefully they'll expand models. If they made a stainless steel tactical in the renegade for around $1000 it would be nice.
Or if they did the same and added bottom metal for around $1200 it wouldn't be bad if they went with like a PTG stealth and one AI or even Magpul AC mag.
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Thats a ready to go hunting rifle.
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I just can't get behind factory remington rifles anymore. They truly are pieces of shit. Granted, they can often be "made" into better rifles, but it's FAR better to start with an aftermarket action if you are going to modify things to that level.
This is a recent development, as I am in process of working out a problem involving a remington action that seems to point at a total lack of quality control on remington's part. A DANGEROUS lack of quality control. Something hidden from the eye and unable to be "measured" by any routine equipment. I'll do a write-up on that upon conclusion of the testing.
Howa, Tikka, and even Ruger have come to the table with fantastic "starter" rifles which are competitively priced and provide reasonable quality. Howa and Tikka being considerably better than Ruger. The thing that make remington great was that you could buy a 700, and turn it into damn near anything. Now, you run a good chance of the action being crooked, the base screws being crooked, or the bolt being totally screwed up. The stocks they ship with the rifles are the worst kind of tupperware/rubber crap. They have continued to go downward in quality... not up. That is not something I can support.
The smart move is no longer to buy a remington. The smart move is to buy a rifle like a howa or tikka if you are new. If you are not new, then buying a custom with an aftermarket action is the smart move. Trying to "build" your way into a remington custom is pointless anymore. By the time all the work is done to it, you could have bought a custom action.
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It's true, and it's disappointing what a 200 yr old company has come to under freedom group.
Just over the weekend I was looking at 870s they have a Hardwood home defense that looks neat and would work, but after buying my last 870 and having extraction issues due to the barrel I don't want another new one.
Wish some rich outdoorsman would buy it and get them back to building good rifles and shotguns.
That said my Versamax has been pretty good except for the forend wiggle.
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As far as shotguns go...I haven't found one yet that I like better than my 30 year old winchester. I don't have any experience with high priced shotguns, but that winchester will shoot. Maybe just be because i've been shooting it most of my life.
That said...I have been tempted to look into a benelli M4 or M2 for home defense. They seem to be pretty well made in comparison to other shotguns.
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@dddoo7 said:
As far as shotguns go...I haven't found one yet that I like better than my 30 year old winchester.
Don't ever shoot a benelli SBE II. I have one of those and a 3-gun.
I've shot almost all competing shotguns... nothing comes close to the benelli.
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@orkan said:
The smart move is no longer to buy a remington. The smart move is to buy a rifle like a howa or tikka if you are new. If you are not new, then buying a custom with an aftermarket action is the smart move. Trying to "build" your way into a remington custom is pointless anymore. By the time all the work is done to it, you could have bought a custom action.
Precisely. The new shooter is far better to get the Howa/Tikka/RPR/etc. to get their feet wet. If they decide to jump in, sell the starter rifle if need be, really won't lose much money if you don't put any money into it. Those funds can then be better spend on a custom action and the associated parts.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BKDyHq_js0c/?taken-by=spartan_rifles
Hey @orkan and @tscustoms is this that remington quality your talking about?
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Yup. That's one example, from hundreds you could find, no doubt.
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Good, no Great news!
The LOP was a little to short on the Renegade for me (I need about 15" it's 13.5, my old bell and carlson was like 14")
But I kind of expected that, luckily McMillan makes a A5 ready spacer kit, I figured WTH I'll order it up and see if I can get it to work.
Well the people at Grayboe were thinking! They use screws to hold on their recoil pads, the same exact screw thread and diameter and distance as the A5 kit.
So.... bam
It's not a direct fit, I'll have to do a little work on the base plate, and the wood screws to attach it are not in yet. But that was really easy.
There's actually three hole underneath the butt pad I'll need to fill one of them so the wood screws won't fall into it. Shouldn't be to tough.
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@rhyno Whats the inlet like on these? Are they just fiberglass like the McMillans? I was looking to see if they had a bedding block and it didn't say on their site. Did you have your glass bedded?
I'm thinking of grabbing one of these before I re-barrel. I need both, and this is the cheaper of the two. I figure I get this, try it and see if my groups shrink. I'd hate to drop $600 on a re-barrel and have some of the same issues.
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@norcal_in_az said:
@rhyno Whats the inlet like on these? Are they just fiberglass like the McMillans? I was looking to see if they had a bedding block and it didn't say on their site. Did you have your glass bedded?
I'm thinking of grabbing one of these before I re-barrel. I need both, and this is the cheaper of the two. I figure I get this, try it and see if my groups shrink. I'd hate to drop $600 on a re-barrel and have some of the same issues.
Inlet's are decent. I'm pretty certain that the inlet is actually being molded in and not machined. Whatever they are making these out of is harder than woodpecker lips. It's also much heavier than a McMillan. Hard to explain everything about it but you can tell it's cheaper.
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A rebarrel will not be a waste of money. It may not be the whole of your problem, but it is for sure a part of it. I do agree that you should replace the stock and have it bedded as well at the same time.
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@tscustoms said:
@norcal_in_az said:
@rhyno Whats the inlet like on these? Are they just fiberglass like the McMillans? I was looking to see if they had a bedding block and it didn't say on their site. Did you have your glass bedded?
I'm thinking of grabbing one of these before I re-barrel. I need both, and this is the cheaper of the two. I figure I get this, try it and see if my groups shrink. I'd hate to drop $600 on a re-barrel and have some of the same issues.
Inlet's are decent. I'm pretty certain that the inlet is actually being molded in and not machined. Whatever they are making these out of is harder than woodpecker lips. It's also much heavier than a McMillan. Hard to explain everything about it but you can tell it's cheaper.
Cheaper but still decent right?
@dddoo7 said:
A rebarrel will not be a waste of money. It may not be the whole of your problem, but it is for sure a part of it. I do agree that you should replace the stock and have it bedded as well at the same time.
I know the rebarrel isn't a waste of money. I can only afford to do one at a time. So my thinking is do this first and see.
My backyard is taking all my extra money right now, lol.
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From what I've been able to gather.
The inlets are molded in, that was mentioned when someone asked about other inlets.
To me the inlet looks pretty good, the ejection port area lines up well, the bolt handle slot isn't touching anywhere.
And there's a ton of room around the barrel I believe it's specd for m24 contour.
I don't know much beyond that, it feels so much more solid then the Bell and Carlson M40 that was on it, it's hard to describe.
And it is heavy, I think I weighed it at 3.8-3.9 lbs I wrote it down somewhere.
There's a few minor defects, like "bubbles" but for the price I think it's amazing so far.
Still need more time on it.
Yea I had Travis bed it, it came with pillars so a guy could probably get away with not doing it right away.
The M5 inlet looked spot on, doesn't look like Travis altered it at all.
I'll add, it's still a bone stock stock. If you need adjustability it doesn't have it. But it can be added, but it'll add to the price.
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Very decent. Like @rhyno said, you could probably get away without having it bedded. They have bigger machined in pillars than I've seen previously in McMillan stocks and again, that stuff is REALLY hard. Didn't have to touch anything to make the Remy and M5 bottom metal fit.
Of course, the action area was completely painted so we had to sand all that out before sticking Marine-Tex to it.
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@rhyno I don't need 15" LOP, haha. So that I'm not worried about. The standard 13" is about what I run now and it feels fine. Luckily for me, my brother works at Tap Plastics. He can make me spacers out of scrap they have.
@tscustoms thats good to hear. I'd like to try it without bedding at first to see how it works.
