Long Range caliber suggestions for next build
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I just spent several days in Texas shooting hogs and coyotes. While I had a load of fun with my M1A1 inside 400 yards it did not take long to realize the weight was simply to much to lug around all day.
My buddy was shooting a 7mm-08 ackly improved and with all the dope numbers at his fingertips, we were plugging hogs and coyotes at 650 yards with ease. The hogs at the 1000 yard range are still walking.....or should I say running after the dust flew around their feeet.
If you were going to build a long range hunting gun (400-1000 yards) that shoots 7mm pills, what would you build? Open for all suggestions.
Thanks
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7LRM
Possibly a 7-300PRC... if I wasn't already invested in LRM.
My go-to is a 7 norma mag improved.
If you're looking for something with more off-the-shelf factory support... then 28 nosler will give right near what a big 7 wildcat will.
Basically, it just comes down to how many rounds you expect to shoot. If not much, then big 7's are super fun. If a lot, then I'd go 7LRM and never look back.
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My next personal 7mm will be a 7mm SAUM. Good brass has become more available with the gaining popularity of the cartridge in custom builds.
180 class bullets at an easy 2900-2950 with charges of H1000 in the low 60-62 range. Some barrels will near 3000fps without pressure. Barrel life will be good and load development will be easy.
It's a short, fat, rimless, long-necked case; another solid option to consider.
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Good option there as well, with the benefit of being able to run a mid length action. Even a short action can work if you aren't super concerned about brass longevity.
Its nice to hear brass availability has been fixed. That was an issue with the saum and WSM for a while.
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I don't think I would shoot more than 100 rounds a year. Not finding a lot of data on the 7 norma mag improved?
What barrel length do you run in the 7 norma?
Is this something that can be built on the Desert Tech platform?
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@kea Are you looking for something specifically in a DT? I would caution you against WSM, SAUM, SS mag, or any other short/fat case in a DT. They can require significant mag tuning to achieve proper feeding. (if at all) The larger cases certainly feed fine. If you're looking for a short mag of any variety, I'd stick to a TS Customs traditional rifle build.
The 7 norma mag improved is an obscure wildcat that requires necking down 300 Norma to 7mm, then fire forming to blow the shoulder forward. Lots of work, excellent performance. It will run a 195gr EOL over 3100 without breaking a sweat. Some will push it up above 3200. It does work in a DT.
With that low of a firing schedule, round count is irrelevant. Share more details about your requirements and desires if you can. It'll make this all a lot easier.
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What little I have read on all the wild cat 7's, it appears the top of that chart is the 7 norma mag improved. I would like to have a rifle I can carry on a multi-day hunt in Alaska as well as out West yet still smoke the yotes here at home and other places.
While I love the 8mm Remington Mag I have used most of my adult life, it appears the wild cat 7s offer more long-range options.
I would like a DT platform but not familiar with the weight compared to a traditional build.
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@kea said in Long Range caliber suggestions for next build:
I would like a DT platform but not familiar with the weight compared to a traditional build.
I would not even consider taking a DT on an alaska hunt... but that's just how I feel about it. When I'm cruising close to my home turf... I don't mind hunting with DT's... but I don't think I'd like going abroad with a proprietary system. Having a backup rifle along isn't a bad choice in either event. The lightest I've ever had a DT when it was rigged up ready to go hunt was right at 14lbs. They can be made lighter with short skinny barrels, but that isn't my thing. My 7NMI DT is over 20lbs.
When comparing that to a traditional rifle... you can go full carbon fiber with titanium all over the place and end up with a 8lb rig ready to hunt pretty easy. ... but in a big cartridge? That's gonna be zero fun to shoot.
The norma case requires a 338 Lapua bolt face... so you're talking about an XL action. Nothing about these big boomers are super handy. My 7NMI has a 30" barrel. It's very heavy, and the thought of a lightweight rifle chambered in these monstrous cartridges hurts my head and shoulder just thinking about. No such thing as a "pack friendly" 30" traditional rifle, either. Yet if you want the big performance, you need the long barrels.
A 10-12lb setup with a nice brake probably wouldn't be too bad in 7NMI. You sure you want to go that big? Smaller 7's can be quite good.
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LOTS to think about on this one.
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I called @tscustoms regarding your situation last night.
He and I both feel you'd be better served by a traditional rifle in 7SAUM than you would a big 7.
... and if your need for horsepower isn't met by that, then a straight 300PRC launching big 30cal bullets would be just the ticket. From there, a straight 300 norma mag is the only "turn key" big mag that I'd recommend. All of these options provide legitimate 1000yd killing capability.Outside of guys like travis and I... servicing a cartridge such as a 7NMI is just a much bigger chore than most guys will want to endure. Even the 28 nosler requires some serious considerations made for barrel condition... and can be more maintenance than guys want to do. All of this leads to not shooting it much, which leads to not being able to deploy it effectively when needed.
When @tscustoms has time, he'll post the culminating arguments of our conversation.
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@kea said in Long Range caliber suggestions for next build:
LOTS to think about on this one.
^^ That is for sure.
For your intended purposes and volume of use, Greg and I both agree you would likely find something that is easier to use than the 7NMI far more enjoyable. While the 7NMI is definitely going to be the biggest and baddest kid on the block, it certainly comes with its fair share of work.
Necking down, fireforming, procuring and validating custom dies; are all a lot less fun than shooting. And for all that work and expense, is what you're shooting at going to notice the marginal ballistic advantage? I'm going to guess that's not likely.
Which brings me back to my 7mmSAUM recommendation. You'll be able to run a 180gr bullet to lets say 2950fps with a modest 60gr of powder, while the 7NMI will push a 195 to 3100 with ease.
Ballistically that means 6.9/1.4 (mil holdover, 10mph wind drift) with the saum and 6.1/1.2 in the 7NMI. For all the additional work and expense, that slight margin in ballistic performance would not be worth it in my day. I'd rather be shooting.
With a 7SAUM you'll have a load developed and be accurately launching bombs at hogs and dogs at a grand while you'd otherwise still waiting for custom dies for a 7NMI.That being said, a 28 Nosler, 7mm-300PRC, 300PRC, 7mm-300WM, 7mm Rem Mag will all fit in between there at varying levels of ease and performance as well. But let's not go there :)
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Thoughts on the 7mm STW?
I want to take advantage of the BC in longer ogive bullets now available but not sure about mag length issues on the 7 STW.
I have a Winchester M70 in 7 MM Remington Mag and while it has put down a fair share of animals when I was in Alaska, I want to push the pills faster. It looks like the 7 mm SAUM has the same ballistics so not sure there was any real gain going that route as far as ballistics go.
If 180 gr bullet is the primary goal in the 7mm, what twist rate is best and what are the lower weight limitations with a twist rate designed for a 180 gr pill or 195 gr.
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@kea said in Long Range caliber suggestions for next build:
Thoughts on the 7mm STW?
I want to take advantage of the BC in longer ogive bullets now available but not sure about mag length issues on the 7 STW.
I have a Winchester M70 in 7 MM Remington Mag and while it has put down a fair share of animals when I was in Alaska, I want to push the pills faster. It looks like the 7 mm SAUM has the same ballistics so not sure there was any real gain going that route as far as ballistics go.
If 180 gr bullet is the primary goal in the 7mm, what twist rate is best and what are the lower weight limitations with a twist rate designed for a 180 gr pill or 195 gr.
7mm STW falls within those same several cartridges as far as performance except it would be the least desirable of all of them as it is the longest and skinniest, with the least industry support.
Sounds like you should build a 28 Nosler, 7mm-300WinMag, or 7mm-300PRC. They'll all exceed the 7mm Rem Mag/7mmSAUM. They will all have near enough similar performance that once the bullet leaves the barrel, it won't have mattered which it was fired from.
8-8.5 twist will spin anything from 160-195 accurately.
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@tscustoms What are the primary differances between the 7-300 prc and the 7 LRM? Leaning towards the prc.
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With hunting in mind, what suggestions do you have for the stock?
Barrel length? I believe we went 26" on my 8mm RM but don't recall. I don't think a few inches longer is a concern.
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Same parent case on both 7LRM and 7-300PRC. Body is longer, neck is shorter on the 7-300PRC yielding more capacity. And the PRC will have more brass available. Can be easily loaded with 300PRC bushing die set and 300PRC seater.
26" barrel
We use mostly McMillan adjustable Game Wardens and A3's if weight allows. If weight doesn't leave room for adjustable, A3 and Game Hunters are my preferred.
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@tscustoms Travis can you shoot me a build sheet that I can review to get an idea on what numbers I am looking at to get this built? Thanks!
Kirk - kirk@illinoisleaks.com
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@kea You bet! I'll shoot you a text or call to get some specs. Thanks.
