Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns
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What should be done about them if anything?
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@martino1 Who determines if they are mentally ill?
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@martino1 there’s already a solution, whether people agree with it or not, I don’t really. Have them mentally adjudicated.
Personally I have issues with this, in the eyes of some people anyone who would want to own a gun can be considered mentally ill.
It’s a shame that certain people try and leverage mental illness to achieve their goals, in the end it does more harm to the mentally ill as they don’t seek treatment out of fear of being branded a danger to themselves or others, even though they may just have anxiety or seasonal depression. Things that are serious for sure but not enough in my eyes to disarm people.
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@orkan said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
@martino1 Who determines if they are mentally ill?
Gun Grabbers will set the bar low for mental illness so that they could snatch away anyone's arms so I think I get gun owners concern. I believe this is a real threat because of the surreptitious way the gun grabbers go about furthering their agenda.
Is there a law out there that is not being enforced or is there something that we as gun owners should consider as counter proposal or do we consider shootings by Nut Jobs as the price of freedom?
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Some of the left consider following the Jesus Christ teachings as a mental illness; the same folks that recognize more than 2 genders. When I was a youngster that belief (more than 2 genders) was recognized as a delusional mental illness. Even a hermaphrodite only had 2 genders.
As time goes on the dwellers of the loooney bin have become the administrative governing powers in order to normalize their collective insanity.
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@mamalukino said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
Some of the left consider following the Jesus Christ teachings as a mental illness; the same folks that recognize more than 2 genders. When I was a youngster that belief (more than 2 genders) was recognized as a delusional mental illness. Even a hermaphrodite only had 2 genders.
As time goes on the dwellers of the loooney bin have become the administrative governing powers in order to normalize their collective insanity.Exactly where I was going with this. Because of my belief in God, specifically anti-gun types would claim I'm mentally ill, and use that as a way to strip me of my rights.
That's the problem with all of the "trying to solve crime before a crime has happened" attitude. It's already illegal to kill people. So if the law was what they actually cared about, they'd realize killing someone with a gun is the same as killing someone with a brick. ... but its not about the law, and its not about safety.
It's about control.
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@orkan said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
That's the problem with all of the "trying to solve crime before a crime has happened" attitude. It's already illegal to kill people. So if the law was what they actually cared about, they'd realize killing someone with a gun is the same as killing someone with a brick. ... but its not about the law, and its not about safety.
It's about control.
Exactly, the drum pounding is all a b.s. distraction directed at their useful idiots.
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I indicated that there was the potential for abuse early in the discussion.
So there's nothing to be done about that can be done about someone like the Parkland shooter.
These events are the price of freedom, is that what you guys are saying?
The parents of the kids that were killed might not let that go so easily.
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@martino1 said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
So there's nothing to be done about that can be done about someone like the Parkland shooter.
Solution: #1 Make family the number one priority again. Both parents present. Put a parent at home, preferably the mom, who is hands on raising the kid(s), teaching good morals, love and compassion. Instead of what the majority of parents do these days (day care, government run schools, etc..).
#2: Actually care about people and show people that you care. 'Love thy neighbor as thyself' comes to mind. One act of kindness can literally save a person's life.
The Parkland shooter came from a broken family, was tossed around in the system and between family members. Had he come from a better home OR someone showed him that they truly cared about him and that he wasn't just another number in society, I bet things wouldn't have turned out the way they did.
In the end, it comes down to personal responsibility. He could have changed his life at any moment. He chose the path he did.
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@martino1 the parkland shooting where the suspect was known to police, but the police didn’t do anything because ... 🤷♂️
But still, there is already an answer to you’re question, people can be mentally adjudicated.
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I cut my thoughts short earlier.... specifically addressing the Parkland shooter:
It is also the personal responsibility of the parents for placing their children where they were.
Police, schools had no duty to protect Parkland school shooting victims, judge rules
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/12/19/parkland-shooting-judge-school-cops-no-duty-protect-kids/2360683002/No one is going to protect your kids as fiercely as you will. Why chance it ?
"Freedom makes a huge requirement of every human being. With freedom comes responsibility. For the person who is unwilling to grow up, the person who does not want to carry his own weight, this is a frightening prospect" - Eleanor Roosevelt
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do we consider shootings by Nut Jobs as the price of freedom?
Precisely! It’s a concept called “Acceptable Cost”. We know that more or less 60,000 people will be killed annually because their driving skills are insufficient for the situation. Statically, it is about 10X as likely that your car will kill you than a firearm. If safety was the real concern, driver qualification would be checked periodically and it isn’t. But, as a society we have agreed that getting a medium sized town full of people killed annually is an acceptable cost for letting poorly qualified people drive. It’s also worth noting that over half of all firearm deaths each year are shot by police. If drug dealers victims are excluded...we’ll you can see where this is going. The so called war on drugs has created a huge financial opportunity for both criminal suppliers and police which oddly are the two groups most likely to kill anyone with a firearm. Gun consfication is a key step in Hagel’s guide to creating a socialist state controlled by a ruling oligarchy. Hagel inspired Wilson and Lenin.
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@martino1 said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
I indicated that there was the potential for abuse early in the discussion.
So there's nothing to be done about that can be done about someone like the Parkland shooter.
These events are the price of freedom, is that what you guys are saying?
The parents of the kids that were killed might not let that go so easily.
The price of freedom? lol
Freedom and individual liberty. You either get it, or you clearly fucking don't get it.
You suppose the 1.2 million soldiers that died in service of our freedom in just the revolutionary war, civil war, and ww1 and ww2 might be considered in your fucking calculations of what the cost of freedom is? You suppose they fought and died so that their loved ones left behind could be forced to have their freedom systematically eliminated because of a few hundred people that were shot which the media likes to repeat every minute of the day after an event?
The parents of the kids that were killed? I'm sad for them. You think their child's death gives them the right to attack their fellow citizens and strip them of their freedom? No, it sure as fuck doesn't.
It's not complicated. It's simple.
Yes, there's something to be done about the parkland shooter. Just as there's something to be done about EVERY lunatic that goes around shooting innocent people. When crazy people are attacking innocent people, you shoot them in the fucking forehead, and they will stop. Hit them with your car. Swing a claw hammer into their eye socket. Resist! Fight! Fight in any way you can. ... or curl up in a fetal position and wait for the cops to arrive, if that's your thing. ... but if you think I'm going to have a conversation with you about willingly handing over ANY of my freedom due to the actions of someone else, you're just as fucking crazy as those shooters.
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@gash I agree with you. The common thread seems to be that many of these mass shooters come from broken homes. It seems to be a tune from a broken record that we hear often.
Between the systematic removal of God from many parts of our society in the name of political correctness and the destruction of the two parent family is exacting a cost. Clearly these individuals have huge problem with their values.
Making family and God a priority would likely deminish future monsters from being created, but we have a number of these monsters in the pipeline. Leo's can't do anything until a crime has been committed. What do we with these monsters?
Orkan, I don't have a problem ending his life After he commits one of these acts, in fact I'm wholly in favor of not punishing society by forcing it to feed and house the POS's. A bullet to the forehead might cause some legal problems for the person that put it there as a preemptive measure. It's the possibility of a preemptive measure that I was looking for to address the monsters in the pipeline.
TT I agree there are conditions that we turn a blind eye to that exact a price in our society. I agree that those that those that sacrifice safety for liberty, deserve neither. It's tough to tell that to a father who lost his little girl or boy.
I was hoping to have a intelligent conversation that might give rise to a solution that might solve the problem.
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I read somewhere that every one of this recent shootings, the individuals where all on some type of psychiatric drug. Not only all the good points above, but is all these pharmaceuticals causing an issue. I would say yes.
I for one am tired of giving up my liberties / freedom for some perceived BS of safety and security.
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@martino1 said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
It's the possibility of a preemptive measure that I was looking for to address the monsters in the pipeline.
So, you're asking what to do about people being shitty, so they don't be shittier?
This country needs to go back to God.
That's the only preemptive measure that will work. People need to stop being encouraged to be terrible, and instead encouraged to be great. Again, not complicated... but simple. If people want to behave the way they are now, terrible things will continue to happen. Look at the way you live your life. Are you certain you are living the way God would have you live? Chances are extremely good that you're a part of the problem. Fix that first. Then if everyone takes that mindset and leaves everyone else the fuck alone... the problem will solve itself.
@martino1 said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
I was hoping to have a intelligent conversation that might give rise to a solution that might solve the problem.
This isn't hard. It's simple. The solutions are easy and known by most... but no one wants to admit that. ... and no one wants to DO what is necessary.
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There has always been the solution, a Loving God allowed to work in our lives.
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As has been said, the answer is simple. When people return to God then evil will cease to exist. Yet this is not the answer that our world wants. We as a nation have strayed farther and farther from God over the last 100 years and especially the last 20 years. We applaud and encourage evil in almost every form and then stand back and act confused when some people take that evil just a little farther than we think they should.
What is the solution? Turn back to God as a. Individual. This must something that we honestly evaluate each day of our lives. This has to begin at the core of the matter by loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind (Luke 10:27). When we love God we will love righteousness, truth, justice, and mercy. People who do things like the parkland shooting either haven’t been taught or don’t care about righteousness, truth, justic or mercy. When we love God as we should we will also love our neighbors as we should. This includes a care and concern even for those we do not know. This includes wanting the best for those around us...and remember, the best is what is right.
The second step to the solution is to fix our families. Again, this one is close to home for each of us and especially close to home for us fathers whom God has set in place as the leaders of the family (Eph 5:25). Husbands, lead your family spiritually and otherwise. Take responsibility for your children and raise them in the Lord. Part of the solution to our problem is to have the home that God demands. One man, one woman, for life working together to raise their children in the Lord. Part of having the home that God commands is having a good wife as well. A wife that is self controlled, pure, and submissive to her husband (Titus 2:5). Also, a wife is to be the one who takes care of the home. The structure of the family in this country has fallen apart due to the wife feeling like she has to work outside the home and husbands expecting her to do so. A wife is to be the keeper of the home. It is what she was designed to do and when she is honest it is what she will be happiest doing (Titus 2:5). When both parents go off to work and leave the kids to be raised by the babysitter, the family suffers. Yet this need for the woman to work outside the home has been fueled by our society which tells women that they have to work. It is fueled by society telling us we have to have more and more things and that we won’t be happy without two incomes. When this is our mindset, we have forgotten what happiness really is.
We can keep going up the ladder in society as well. When individuals turn back to God and families turn back to God, the country will turn back to God. Yet of necessity the Government must also turn back to God to turn this country around. We need political leaders who love God and who stand for what is right. We need leaders who care more about truth than politically correctness. We need leaders who will use their sword to punish true evil and only use it for that (Romans 13:1-4). We need a government that will not terrorize, oppress, or limit righteous people. If we are living righteous, then we have no need of laws (Romans 2:14). Therefore laws should only be in place to punish the wicked.
When this is the society we live in, then children will grow up loving God and loving others. When this is the society we live in, there will at times be evil, but it will be met with swift, just punishment. These kinds of shootings did not happen 50 years ago, yet what many fail to realize is that guns haven’t changed, hearts have.
I know these Biblical truths are not popular. I know they are “sexist”, “oppressive”, “old fashioned”, and “bigoted” according to our society, but it doesn’t change the fact that they are true.
This article is of particular interest regarding women in workplace.
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@dddoo7 said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
but it doesn’t change the fact that they are true.
True, and proof that they are true is EVERYWHERE, but people don't want truth. They want a new boat.
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DDD You dug up a great article So how are we as a society going to get people into church. I don't see judges mandating attendance at Sunday mass for troubled teens that come before them.
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@martino1 said in Seriously Mentally Ill Indiviuals with guns:
So how are we as a society going to get people into church. I don't see judges mandating attendance at Sunday mass.
Well...there is one more category I left out above that also needs to be addressed. Most churches have gotten away from God as well. When church is commercialized and driven by money it is not what God intended. When churches don't teach the truth and the whole truth of the Bible it is not what God intended. When man decides what a church teaches instead of God, it is not what God intended. Again, it comes down to a heart issue and the problem is that the leaders of many churches are just as corrupt as the politicians and the world as a whole. Church leaders need to have that same whole hearted love for God that He has commanded and then follow Christ as the head of the church (Ephesians 5:25). When wicked people lead churches, then said churches are not what God intended. If you are sincerely trying to do right, then find a church that loves God and truth above all else...it won't however be easy.
Now, you say that judges don't mandate that people go to church. Yet "going to church" is only a small part of this concept. It is a very necessary part, but only a very small part. The concept is changing one's heart to love God. Being forced to sit on a bench in a church building does not change one's heart. Calling one's self a Christian does not change one's heart. Claiming to be religious and a believer in Christ does not change one's heart. One's heart is only changed after he completely tears himself down and rebuilds his life patterned after Loving God. When one rebuilds his heart, going to church will not be an issue. You don't learn how to love God from going to church-- you learn it from the Bible. You express that love by worshiping as God has commanded which includes assembling with the saints (Hebrews 10:25).
How then do we change the world? How do we get the world to love God? The only way we can change the world is by getting our heart right. As we do that, we should work with our spouse to get her heart right as well. Then teach our kids to have the right heart. Then, just as Jesus did, we work in the world to change one soul at a time. The problem is that if most people are honest they will realize that they have given up on their own soul and could care less about anyone else soul...even religious people. And therein lies the problem.
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Being good and Godly doesn't mean going to a building with a cross on it.
It means being righteous every minute of every day. Seeking truth, in all things. Fighting evil, no matter its form.
