BAE SKEET-IR
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Part of last night's activities included testing new ( to us) BAE SKEET-IR Thermal. This one is billed as a spotter (either handheld or helmet mounted) as well as a rifle mounted thermal weapon sight ... and as a clipon.
Last night, I was trying it as a clipon.
That's the SKEET in front of the trijicon RMR reflext dot sight ... and bringing up the rear is a DI Optical (Korea) 3x magnifier. The gun is a 5.56(14.5). My M4-ish.
So the gun was already zeroed the day before with 77gr IMI. I zeroed at 25yds so I would be double zeroed at close to 400yds as I want to test the SKEET's ability to support hitting heated steel at 300yds and 400yds. I used the MSv3 to measure the MVs and I had got 2735 with SD 12.4. Not shabby for $0.52 per round ammo.
So that puts my double zero at 372. Holds (in inches) are100yds down 6
200yds down 10
300yds down 7
400yds up 4
450yds up 12
500yds up 24So at 450yds the wind hold for 10 MPH cross wind is 18 inches ... and I consider 450yds ( about 400 meters) to be the max effective point target range for this setup).
When zeroing I was hitting the 3/4 inch dots at 25 yards off the tripod, so that was my baseline.
WIth the SKEET and handwarmers last night the handwarmers at 3 inches tall by 2 inches wide. So the first 3 rds ground was 0.25 inch just to the left of the lower left corner of the handwarmer. So 1.5 inches low and 1 inch left. I had to adjust the zero of the RMR. I did and then got final ten round group all on a handwarmer within an inch of the center. Shooting handwarmers is not as precise as shooting dots :)
Other events consumed a lot of time, and we didn't get out to the pasture to test all 300yds and 400yds, but that will be high on the agenda for Friday night's session.
the SKEET image looks great, but having to rezero the day optic is evidence of what I expected, that this device is a marginal clipon.
So we will probably next try to focus (after trying the 300yds 400yds) on getting the SKEET to work as a helmet mounted thermal scanner. It is the smallest NOD I have ever seen and again has a great image, so we will see what it can do beside a 14 on the helmet.
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I have a IR defense MK2 that I use as a dedicated optic for hogs. It’s clip on capable but I’ve only tried it more just to see how it worked. It’s entirely to big and heavy to have it in front of a day optic. Also I never could get it to work with any day optic correctly either. If I remember right you zeroed a tiny cross hair in the thermal to match you aiming point on the day optic. Like I said I never used it that way and never even fired it like that just messed around with it. Thermals amaze me as there isn’t any hiding from them. I’ve been able to kill a few pigs and two coyotes out to 400ish with mine. I can make out the difference between a deer and a hog 90% of the time with mine at 1 mile mainly by there mannerisms if the humidity is down and the ambient temperature is low.
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IRD Marketing said all the IRD (now Trijicon) scopes were clipons ... but that is such a stretch ... I'd call it bovine scatology.
The SNIPE, is a clipon. Otherwise, none of them are.
This is why:
01 - All the scopes in question (except the SNIPE) have PVS-14 rear lens housings. The PVS-14 housing cannot support any magnification level other than exact 1x. In my book a clipon should be able to support at least 2x, if a 320/336/384 or at least 4x if a 640. But no optic with a PVS-14 rear housing can support any magnification other than 1x. That's the laws of physics as they apply to that lens system.
02 - None of the scopes (except the SNIPE) have a collimating rear lens (the PVS-14 housing is not a collimating lens). In my book, the definition of a clipon is a NOD that has a collimating lens on the rear ... risley prisims collimated on a collimating table and able to optically center the image seen from the real world, passed by the core to the rear of the thermal display to the rear lens housing and over to the day scope. That means if the day scope optical center is 0.2 inches higher and lower than the optical center of the of the thermal then the collimated risley's prisms will handle it. On my "real" clipons, the KAC PVS-30 and the BAE UTC-x ... you slap the clipon on the rifle and shoot and you are dead on out to 900yds (as far as we shoot at night). No adjustments needed or even possible. With the Trijicons there are adjustments possible, but because there is no collimating lens, we should expect to have to use these adjustments features for every rifle. With the PVS-30 and UTC-x there are no adjustments. BTW, the SNIPE does have risley prism rear end.
So, I rest my case. The Trijicon scopes are billed as having clipon capability, but IMHO that is so marginally the case, that I would say it is equivalent to not the case.
:)
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Last night put the SKEET on helmet
That's the SKEET on the left side of the helmet, with PVS-14 and PAS-29 on the right side of the helmet.
Being smaller and lighter than a PVS-14 the SKEET fits on the dual bridge very nicely.
The image is great.
The only downside is now the control buttons are on the bottom of the unit. When the unit is weapon mounted, the control are on the top. It will take some practice to get used to manipulating the buttons on the bottom.
I think this use case will be the primary use case for the SKEET. Helmet mounted thermal spotter.
Need to work on fabricating a dummy plug I can hook to a usb battery to power the unit. A single c123 battery thermal will not last long in the cool half of the year.
But I like it on there a lot ... much more compact and lighter than the Patrol in that same spot, though the Patrol works fine also.
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Hows the image quality/distance on the skeet compared to the patrol?
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This is an "L" model, so 320 resolution, so it should not compete with the 640 patrol ...
That said, this SKEET is the best 320 image I have ever seen by a long shot. Comparing it to my ATN ODIN 320 ... the ATN looks like a 2D black and white cartoon, the typical FLIR commercial core look, same as the old Armasights ... whereas the OASYS cores in the Patrol and the Skeet look like OASYS cores ...
Also, I would say the SKEET is clearly better than the patrol on 2x digital ... I wonder if the 320 SKEET has a 640 display on the back even though the microbolometer is 320 on the front. I will try to figure that out.
The SKEET 640s usually go for around $8,500 used ... the SKEET 320s for around $5,000 used ... my buddy James and I crowdsourced this SKEET. We would rather have a 640, but decided we didn't want to wait. And if you want a 640 that's mostly what you do. Put out the word to a few of the usual suspects and then wait.
James coming back over tonight and bringing his Patrol, so I will run them side by side and try to give a more detailed comparison of the image. My Patrol is at the machinist in Idaho being the model for the machine work on the extra parts for the "clipon enhancement kit" we are working on for the patrol. So I do not have mine here.
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Oh, update ... I've run the Patrol and the Skeet side by side now for a good bit. Under most conditions, the Patrol 640 is a bit better than the Skeet 320, but not as much as I would've thought. Maybe 10% to 20% better. But, the skeet can detect cattle and 1800 ... and PID yotes and deer out to 500yds even 800yds on occasion. So functionally they are very close. The skeet does have an integrated full power ir-laser for designating items with an aiming reticle in the thermal. And the azimuth displayed on the display as well. The Patrol does not have those. So 9 times out of 10 I would take the skeet, due to weight, and the azimuth, but for maximum distance PID, I would take the patrol.
