Setting up Forester Full Length Sizing Die
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I just purchased a set of Forester dies to reload for my 6.5CM. I am in the process of setting up the sizing die. When I went to set up the die for a test I bottomed the die out on the shell holder plus a 1/4 turn. (I do plan to set the die up to just bump the shoulder but I am not there yet.) When I try to size the brass it feels like something is making very hard contact before the shell holder makes contact with the die face. Maybe a 1/16" gap between the shell holder and the die. If I remove the brass from the system the shell holder makes contact with the die face.
I pulled the die apart and everything seems to be setup right. Any suggestions on what I should be looking for or what I am doing wrong?Thanks.
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@bear9350 possibly the decapping pin/expander ball rod/spindle is contacting the brass.
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I had the same problem when I first got my Forster FL die and it was that I had the expander ball too high. Once I lowered it . . . problem solved.
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When I pulled the die apart I set it up per the instructions. Placing the bottom third of the ball at the same height as the small sight hole.
I will check again tonight and play with if a bit more I guess.
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If there’s any question just take the decapping stem completely out of the die and size a piece of brass, if it doesn’t hit then you know where your problem is. If your expander ball is to low you can bend the stem and cause run out in the neck.
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Took the stem out and same thing. Checked the length of the brass and it was significantly longer then max length. I trimmed it down to the trim length with no change. Still a gap between the shell holder and die face.
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@bear9350 said in Setting up Forester Full Length Sizing Die:
When I went to set up the die for a test I bottomed the die out on the shell holder plus a 1/4 turn.
Most likely you're feeling the shoulder of the die contact the shoulder on the case. You're likely setting the shoulder back way too far. You can't set up the die, and then set the die up to bump the shoulder later. Setting up the die properly IS setting it up to bump the shoulder properly. You can't have one without the other.
Those cases you've sized thus far likely have some dangerous headspace and crippled web from the excessive setback.
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I don't think I have pushed the shoulder back yet. I am using the hornady comparators to measure how much I bump the shoulder back. If I tried to put some measurements down I would be guessing and don't want to confuse the numbers. If anything the last after measurement I took it looked like it may have grown a bit.
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@bear9350 This video helped me and after watching went back and re-set up every sizing die I have.
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@bear9350 said in Setting up Forester Full Length Sizing Die:
I don't think I have pushed the shoulder back yet. I am using the hornady comparators to measure how much I bump the shoulder back. If I tried to put some measurements down I would be guessing and don't want to confuse the numbers. If anything the last after measurement I took it looked like it may have grown a bit.
I can't think of what else would be hitting before shell holder contact if not the shoulder or the expander rod on the inside base of the case.
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Since you have eliminated the decamping pin and die shoulder, the next thing that binds is the web. Measure the resized cases vs unsized cases at about .200 above the base. Small base dies often bind up on the top of the web if your chamber is cut with a big reamer.
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After contacting Forster yesterday I sent the die back to them with a couple pieces of fired brass to look at.
Maybe @tscustoms can comment on the reamer used.
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@bear9350 said in Setting up Forester Full Length Sizing Die:
After contacting Forster yesterday I sent the die back to them with a couple pieces of fired brass to look at.
Maybe @tscustoms can comment on the reamer used.It's not uncommon for the dies to be "headspaced" long. I don't know how many Forster FL 6Dasher dies we've buzzed .010-.015" off the bottom of because they wouldn't bump shoulders.
Almost all our barrels get headspaced at GO+.002", any proper set of dies should bump the shoulder at that. Not always the case however.
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@tscustoms have that same issue with a honed die, I need almost a full turn after touching the shell holder plate to on my co-ax to bump the shoulder .002
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@tscustoms said in Setting up Forester Full Length Sizing Die:
Almost all our barrels get headspaced at GO+.002".....
This is what I was looking for in Setting Headspace
https://forums.gunhive.com/topic/2481/setting-headspace
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I sent the die back to Forester. They took a look at the die and determined everything was ok. They sized a piece of brass I sent along and bumped the shoulder back .005". They also sent some of there sizing oil back with the die.
Got the die back today and tried to size a piece of brass. Lubed the brass up with the Forester lube and tried sizing it with the no results. I am not able to push the shoulder back at all.
I am trying to do this with a Lee press. The guy I talked to at Forester mentioned something about the Lee presses maybe not having as much mechanical advantage as some other presses and cartridges like 6.5CM have a brass geometry that are harder to bump the shoulder on then some. Is my press just not capable of doing this? I had no issue when I was sizing the .308 or .223 brass previously.
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I had this very same issue with a FL 6.5x47 die. It was bottoming out on the press. No amount of cam over would help. It actually was so far from being able to size my brass correctly the brass grew a couple thousandths which is common when you don’t have the die down far enough. I use a forester coax press so you would expect their dies to work in their press. I called them and they offered to take a look at the die but I never sent it in to them.
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@bull81 two dies honed that are long on the inside. Called Forster twice already and the first time he blamed it on the sizing wax I was using (imperial).
Went though the motions and still have to crush the body before I see any movement at the shoulder.
I have a co-ax press. I put the ram up and throw the die in the holder. Screw it down until it touches the shell holder. Then I give a bit of cam over, about a quarter turn. Not until a half a turn do I see any change on my shoulder (.0015 - .002). That’s all fine and dandy but how much am I actually crushing the body more than it’s needed.
I will be calling them again in the morning to see what they say. 6.5x47 and 6mm creed.
Btw, runout on my 6.5x47 is less than .001. My runout on my 6mm is around .002-.003. Honed die.
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I've got everything working now. My repeatability for full length resizing/ bumping the shoulder back and bullet seating are not great. I am thinking this is probably due to the cheap Lee press. I am also guessing my run out is not great. I have no way to measure run out at this time, but I can see it is there when spinning rounds to measure the base to ogive length. I'm currently on the hunt for a Forster co-ax. Seems every body has them on back order right now.
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@bear9350 said in Setting up Forester Full Length Sizing Die:
I am thinking this is probably due to the cheap Lee press.
@bear9350 said in Setting up Forester Full Length Sizing Die:
I'm currently on the hunt for a Forster co-ax.
You're on the right track.
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@bear9350 said in Setting up Forester Full Length Sizing Die:
I've got everything working now. My repeatability for full length resizing/ bumping the shoulder back and bullet seating are not great. I am thinking this is probably due to the cheap Lee press. I am also guessing my run out is not great. I have no way to measure run out at this time, but I can see it is there when spinning rounds to measure the base to ogive length. I'm currently on the hunt for a Forster co-ax. Seems every body has them on back order right now.
As orkan says . . . "you're on the right track." When I switched from my "cheap Lee press" to the co-ax it really improved the consistency by a huge margin. Not only that, the co-ax increased the speed and ease of reloaded. I don't think there's a better hand press in existence than the Forster co-ax.
Keep a close eye out for availability. The availability is often short lived.
