Be careful what you call your guns



  • Florida college student to be deported after skipping class, buying 'sniper rifle' and dyeing hair: report

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/30/florida-college-student-to-be-deported-after-skipping-class-buying-sniper-rifle-and-dyeing-hair-report.html

    I really don’t know how to feel about this. On one hand...I don’t believe that foreigners here on a visa should have the rights to purchase guns and I believe that there should be quite a bit fewer visas issued in the first place.

    On the other hand this is going to set a standard for citizens as well. The guy dyed his hair, bought guns, and quit going to class. None of which is illegal or dangerous to others. I understand that one other shooter followed that same pattern, however thousands of students happen to follow that pattern each year and are not intending to harm anyone.

    Oh...yeah...also, be careful what you call your guns. We all have been around precision rifles enough that we know not to call them “sniper rifles” unless they are actually used for MIL, or LEO sniping. However how many of us didn’t call them “sniper rifles” when just starting out. Obviously we weren’t intending to use them in that capacity, but simply referring to the type of rifle.

    At this point I am all for deporting those who are here illegally and even revoking many if not most visas...at least until we get some things straightened out here. However if this is setting a standard that will be used on citizens then I am absolutely against it. This guy was treated with prejudice due to gun ownership.



  • The term "Sniper Rifle" will be the next thing used against us, just like "Assualt Rifle".

    Oh and I like to look at and play with my guns too. lol



  • I didn’t even know people here on visas could buy firearms.

    I’m not against it, In fact if you think that owning firearms is a god given right then that should apply not only to US citizens then a citizen from anywhere else, just that we seem to be the only country that cares, and really only maybe a few of us do.

    So this is an interesting story.



  • Nonimmigrant Aliens can buy or rent firearms in the US, see BATFE FAQ under Nonimmigrant Aliens, all they have to do is buy a hunting license or show evidence that they are attending a match. They can rent firearms to shoot at a range. Mexicans and Canadians attending matches and hunting are the major users of this rule but it applies to any nonimmigrant alien not otherwise barred from possession of a firearm.



  • I don’t believe guns to be a God give right. I believe that to be a right guaranteed by the US constitution.

    There are actually very few “God given” rights in the Bible and I can’t recall a single one that is physical in nature. Every right (privedlege) God has given us CANNOT be taken away.



  • Quotes from Google search: unalienable rights.

    Natural and legal rights are two types of rights. Natural rights are those that are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government, and so are universal and inalienable (they cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws).
    What's unalienable cannot be taken away or denied. Its most famous use is in the Declaration of Independence, which says people have unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
    The Declaration states, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

    If rights are not granted by the Creator then they can be taken by the state.
    The right to self preservation is ingrained in most all living creatures, the use of arms and the right to bear them proceeds firearms. Knives,swords and spears were confiscated to rule over the peasant class.
    Prime example is feudal Japan.



  • I am very thankful for our Declaration of Independence and constitution. It is the constitution that guarantees these rights to us as United States citizens. Rights that other people around the world do not have.

    Also, our “state” will of necessity violate these rights if they take them away from us and according to the constitution of our country they can be held accountable for doing so.

    However these same rights are no where guaranteed by our creator. The only constitutional right guaranteed by our creator is the freedom of religion...yet even that is only the choice to do what is right regardless of the laws around us.

    Consider liberty for example. In Philemon, Onesimus was Philemon’s servant and had run away from Philemon. Paul told Onesimus that in order to live Godly he must return to Philemon and serve him. I am in no way advocating that we return to a system of servant/masters...however in the Bible servants were told to serve their masters as if they were serving Christ...not to flee their master and find happiness.

    Self defense is a biblical concept and is seen a few times in the Bible...yet it is no where guaranteed.

    The rights that we have guaranteed by the constitution are rights that I believe every person should have. Yet we have men that fought and died to “buy” these rights for us as United States citizens. That is why we have these rights.

    The Bible is an old and archaic book...yet it is still the law. Many people (not talking about you) try to leave the Bible and its laws behind by saying that it is outdated. Yet the New Testament is still the law that carries authority whether people follow it or not.

    The constitution is an old document. Many are trying to get away from the constitution because they say it is old and outdated. Yet the constitution is still the authority as long as this country stands.



  • Interesting discussion. I think @dddoo7 is quite right in that the bill of rights is not directly mentioned in the bible. However there seem to be many passages that hint at the correct behavior, and I believe that if Jesus were here today he would not want the government telling us what we could say or what gun we can have.

    It would seem the bill of rights and the bible share a lot of intention in common, in that both sets of rules would seem to ensure a free people. I like that.

    I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the bible that says "Pay taxes or you will go to jail." The government and our legal system are both completely opposed to the bill of rights and the bible. Proof of this fact is everywhere.



  • I am with Daniel on this one. The Bible says nothing of owning weapons as a right, however, Jesus did recommend the disciples to buy swords (Lk. 22:36) and swords are weapons, in this case the purpose is self-preservation. Self-preservations is a right, because as we are made by God in His image, we have an intrinsic right to life and thus an intrinsic right to self-preservation, however the means to accomplish that are not a right. This is what the Catholic Church teaches on the matter from the Cathechism:

    2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

    If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's. (this quote is from Saint Thomas Aquinas "Summa Theologuca in the 13th century)
    2265 Legitimate defense can be not only A RIGHT BUT A GRAVE DUTY for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

    The Church teaches that using deadly force is always the last resort when all other options have been exhausted, however, the Church is not against the lawful and justified ending of someone else's life to protect our own life, that of other's in our care, or the innocent and defenseless. She also teaches that the use of arms is a right for defense against an aggressor, however, that is not to be taken to mean "a God given right". Great discussion.



  • I don't question the fact that the Bible does not mention the right to bear arms; however, The Creator ingrained self preservation in our DNA and most all other living organisms; the tool doesn't matter; sharp stick, antler, rock, pencil, clock radio can be used for that purpose.

    The words used; “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….” are dissected to reveal some of what leads to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness in the enumerated Bill of Rights.

    The Founders recognized the individuals right and the nations right,which flows thru the people, given by the Creator to self preservation and times being what they were, the most effective tool to get the job done.

    The Constitution was written by a very educated people, who possessed great Faith and prayed for guidance in the Constitution's construction.



  • @mamalukino said:

    I don't question the fact that the Bible does not mention the right to bear arms; however, The Creator ingrained self preservation in our DNA and most all other living organisms; the tool doesn't matter; sharp stick, antler, rock, pencil, clock radio can be used for that purpose.

    The words used; “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….” are dissected to reveal some of what leads to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness in the enumerated Bill of Rights.

    The Founders recognized the individuals right and the nations right,which flows thru the people, given by the Creator to self preservation and times being what they were, the most effective tool to get the job done.

    The Constitution was written by a very educated people, who possessed great Faith and prayed for guidance in the Constitution's construction.

    Not only were they educated but, they were poorly paid whereby after they did their public service they went back to their chosen professions, unlike the "public servants" of today who are funded by special interests and never leave.


 

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