40x...one year and 5,000 rounds later
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I'm still loving my Primal Rights 40x repeater and if any of you get an opportunity to build one you should do so. This thing shoots excellent. It feeds great, mags are cheap and easy to find, and is is an absolute joy to shoot. It has developed a predictable first round shift, but Greg let me know that many factory barrels will develop one at some point. If you have one built you might consider putting a benchmark on it at the same time...but I don't intend to change the barrel on mine as it is shooting too good at this point.
After shooting it for about a year and close to if not over 5,000 rounds there are three main things that I would change about it if I were building it today.
The first is the scope...which I have already changed out. I started out with a TT315P because I really liked the 525P that is on my desert tech. The TT315P is a great scope and I love it...however it is not well suited to rimfire. The parallax will adjust at 50 yards, but no closer. Therefore all target shooting had to be at 50 yards or more and even shooting birds at 40 or 30 yards was difficult due to the focus and parallax being out. I recently sold the Tac Ops that I had and some of that money went to buying a Schmidt and Bender PMII with the same gen 2 XR reticle as the TT scopes have in them. This scope, while not as fancy as the TT is much better suited to the rimfire. A few days ago I shot a bird at about 12 yards and was able to focus to see clearly at that distance. If you are buying a high end scope for a rimfire rifle, then buy a S&B...not a Tangent Theta.
The second thing I would change about this rifle is the trigger. I shoot this rifle mostly from the dining room table (60%), some from the back yard on a shooting mat (35%) and very little out in the field (5%). I had the trigger set exactly where I wanted it and all went well for the first couple thousand rounds or so. For the last several months the trigger has felt a little gritty and has developed a noticeable creep. While it doesn't stop me from shooting, I don't feel as if a $200+ trigger should react in this way. The rifle hasn't been in the dust, dirt, or abused in any way...yet the trigger feels as if it has be drug through the sand behind an M1 abrams. I am sure that I can clean the trigger every 500 rounds or so and it will continue shooting well. However I have this trigger set at about 1.5 lb...not ounces. There are many 1.5lb triggers out there without creep that don't require cleaning every 500 or so rounds...and even more often if they are used more in the field.
The third main thing that I would change if I were building this rifle today is the stock. I ordered a Manners T4-A because that is the same stock that I had on the Tac Ops rifle and the CZ455 and I thought that I liked that stock. It was only after attending the Primal Rights class in SD that I realized why I didn't need the T4 stock. It is difficult to get a bag to sit properly under the rear of the T4...and since it is flat there is no adjust ability at all. I can either balance it on the rear, or stick it in the hook, but there is nothing in between and very little space at each spot. It works, but there are stocks that are much better designed for riding a rear bag than the manners T4.
I still love the 40x and will continue shooting it, but I am chalking it up to a learning experience. Hopefully some of you can benefit from this advice if you intend to build a 40x (or centerfire).
Now...here is the kicker and the part that makes me angry at myself. EVERY BIT OF THIS WAS 100% AVOIDABLE. When I was picking out parts and discussing it with Greg he tried to steer me away from every one of these things. He told me that a S&B was the scope I needed and I said, OK, but I want a TT and against his advice I demanded the TT. He told me that a Timney trigger would be a better trigger...but I wanted the jewel instead. He told me that the T4 stock was not well suited for precision shooting...but it was the stock I wanted. After I told Greg that against his recommendation I still want the T4, he responded, "it is a really snipery stock". So here I was a year ago. I thought I had enough shooting experience to spec out the perfect parts for a perfect rimfire build and I even argued Greg about why my choices were better suited than what he recommended. I wish 1000 times over that I had just told Greg, "I want a no compromises 40x repeater, tell me what I need to buy."
Fast forward to now. I recently ordered a couple of barrels for my Desert Tech. I discussed with Greg what I wanted to do with them and their intended purpose and asked what I needed. He recommended two different calibers and I quickly said, "that sounds great". Greg then asked, "what twist do you want"...to which I quickly replied "whatever you recommend". He then asked, "how long do you want them"...to which I said..."Greg...you know what I want these barrels for...just order them to the same specs you would order them if you were getting them for yourself."
Thing is...I don't have experience with very many calibers...and I don't have extensive experience with ANY calibers. Why would I interject my thoughts on a given subject to someone who has worn out more barrels then I will ever see? Then I stop and think...where did my "thoughts" on the subject of precision rifles come from? When it comes to 308 I have a few thoughts from first hand experience...but very little first hand with ANY other caliber. My "thoughts" therefore are based on what I have heard. Some from sniper forums, some from snipers hide, and some from here. Now...the first two sources are coming from guys that most of them only have very limited experience with one or maybe two calibers...but almost no one has extensive experience in many calibers, in many twist rates, with many barrel lengths, and many barrel contours. Therefore my "thoughts" are based on theory...not experience. From now on...when I call Greg to order rifles I intend to rely on his experience instead of injecting my theory into the mix.
Trust is often a difficult thing. Trusting people does not come easy for me...or for most people. Trusting vendors is even more difficult as most of the time their opinion is skewed by their desire to sell a product and make money. Through these difficult experiences I have learned to trust Greg. When he tells me what is best regarding rifles...I don't have to worry about whether it is or not because I know his recommendation is truth based on experience.
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Excellent post. :)
... and thanks for the kind words.I will say that your recent barrel order was quite effortless as compared to the previous order. lol
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@dddoo7 nice write up. Did you go 22 creed for one barrel and what is the other?
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DDD
you tease.... Greg said he's not doing 40X's any more. He said Gash had an Annie and that might be a good substitute. When I closer to pulling the trigger on one I'll touch base with him and see if that is still his opinion based on current offerings.
I agree with your comments regarding trust. If given too easily in todays world you will get burned. I've been told in the past by gun shop owners that bargain scopes were a good value and they hold zero. You can guess how that turned out. I'm sure the newbees can all attest to being mislead more than once by well spoken snake oil salesmen in the industry.
This happened before I began researching things here. A lot of frustration at the range with baseball and softball sized groups. That's the nature of the world of sporting goods and there's no changing that. Greg's honesty is refreshing and sometimes painful. It's nice to know that his advise is based on hands on knowledge and experience.
I wish I could attend the seminar in May 18 but the stars just aren't aligning work wise to let me go. At least that's how it looks today.
That's just the nature of my chosen profession. Not asking or looking for understanding, it is what it is and I behave accordingly.
Greg is a wealth of knowledge. His pointers on reloading have gotten me groups tighter than I expected.
I have no doubt that I would sharpen my shooting skills by attending his shindig in the stix.. Maybe next year.
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I really wanted a 40x when I saw it perform, but I'm a lefty and they didn't make any in a LH format. Orkan searched the gun wilderness to find a good sub and indeed he did succeed with my Annie. If I'm doing my stuff correct, it's a freaking laser. :) It's not a repeater but that's ok, it's freaking amazing.
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@gash said:
I really wanted a 40x when I saw it perform, but I'm a lefty and they didn't make any in a LH format. Orkan searched the gun wilderness to find a good sub and indeed he did succeed with my Annie. If I'm doing my stuff correct, it's a freaking laser. :) It's not a repeater but that's ok, it's freaking amazing.
If you cant get one, not much chance for me.
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@dddoo7 You will have to keep me posted on 7LRM. I am torn between that and 300NM. I am saving right now so I have some time. I tried some 6creed SRP brass for the 22cm and was impressed. I have more testing to do but initially looking good. Maybe we can talk Alpha into some SRP 22cm brass.
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@tpk936 7LRM and 300NM are pretty different cartridges. ;)
No need to talk alpha into SRP 22 creed. I'm quite certain they will have some at some point.
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@orkan said:
@martino1 said:
I wish I could attend the seminar in May 18
The class is may 12-13.
Referred to year not date, but thanks.
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Not to derail this thread, but what’s the next best option for a repeater? CZ? One of the custom options like Stiller or voodoo?
My local range has precision 22 matches structured in the practical tactical style that look like a good time.
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The Tikka T1x looks very promising, given its compatibility with tikka centerfire stocks. It seems to be at a very competitive price point also. I'm definitely buying one just to check out.
Ruger's precision rimfire might be worth a look too... but if previous ruger products are any indication... it's likely to disappoint.
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@orkan I hope the T1x is a shooter,I more or less gave up on Ruger,the last 2 rifles i got from them had to go back to the factory.1 of them had to go back twice.
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@orkan and that is why I will need your guidance.
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What do you think of something like this?
https://www.vudoogunworks.com/action/patented-vudoo-v-22-rimfire-repeater-action/
I’d rather have tscustoms or someone cut a custom barrel for whatever I do and avoid taking a chance with a factory rifle.
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@dddoo7 You know, I think you are suffering to much with that 40x and should just give it to me...lol
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The person behind that project, means I will NEVER own one.
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@orkan
Just out of curiosity why’s that? Like I said just curious.
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He went out of business a few years ago and kept a whole lot of deposits for rifles that he never built. When I was gathering parts for my first custom I was up in the air between tac ops and black ops precision. Fortunately I chose tac ops because I would have been in the time frame to lose my deposit and parts.
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Do a search for Mike Bush, Wildcall custom rifles, underground skunkworks, black ops rifles, and whatever the fuck he's calling his business now.
People have very short memories, it seems.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?130152-BlackOps-Precision-Rimfire
In that thread, you'll see that nothing has changed. Threads go the same way today. I'm right, they are wrong, I can prove it... yet I get fucking crucified and no one says anything about it.
I don't know who the vudoo people are... but they are clearly supporting mike and completely ignoring his past. I think I recall several threads where guys were complaining of losing their $2000-$4000 deposits and never getting a rifle, but those threads were on the old hide.
I've never seen a vudoo rimfire rifle in person. Never shot one. Never will either.
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I had no idea. Fuck that guy too.
I’ll wait on the Tika I suppose.
As an aside isn’t there some criminal penalty for this Bush dick? If serialized gun parts went missing that seems like something fairly significant....
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I'm not a lawyer. I keep a retainer with the most expensive one I could find and that's served me quite well so far. So I know what I'd do if some asshole ran off with $4000 of my money.
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That Lithgow from Australia looks interesting.
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@tackyp said:
I had no idea. Fuck that guy too.
I’ll wait on the Tika I suppose.
As an aside isn’t there some criminal penalty for this Bush dick? If serialized gun parts went missing that seems like something fairly significant....
I can't speak regarding law enforcement on economic crimes in your jurisdictions but in my area, Sou. Fla, police don't seem to get interested until your loss exceeds 6 figures. Filing a report was still advised by client attorneys. If you have reason to suspect the business owner didn't file his taxes, i.e. wanted checks made out to him personally, cleared copies of your checks will have which financial institution that bank the bad actor cleared it through. You can provide this information to tax authorities. It's not likely he/she will have reported his/her ill gotten proceeds on his tax return. It might not get your $ back, but you might get a little satisfaction knowing the tax man is after the bad actor. You might get a reward for turning them in.
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I don’t want to wreck the course of this thread, but I’m thinking more like report your gun stolen = he’s in possession of a stolen firearm if it ever surfaces again. And in most places it’s grand theft.
I’m mostly just concerned for those people getting made whole.
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@tackyp said:
I don’t want to wreck the course of this thread, but I’m thinking more like report your gun stolen = he’s in possession of a stolen firearm if it ever surfaces again. And in most places it’s grand theft.
I’m mostly just concerned for those people getting made whole.
If you can't get traditional law enforcement to get you whole, the tax men do make referrals to LE when they see other laws are broken. If a report was filed with LE, getting a referral from another agency might get the ball rolling for you.
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@hypo That's another one I'd like to get my hands on for some serious testing.
