No one likes the truth...
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No one likes the truth... and anyone that tells it is persecuted.
http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/should-i-buy-a-tangent-theta.6875578/#post-6945962
Just watch the posts that show up on that thread. People will be tripping over themselves to bash me. It's already begun. :)
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Well, I suppose I’ll break my no going on snipershide rule to read this.
I’m guessing though that people would rather recommend Kahles new 5-25 that no one has ever used before agreeing with you though.
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This isn't about snipershide. The specifics don't even matter. Everyone wants to have this make-believe unicorn land where we all get along.
Immediately after posting that, I get a call from some reject wanting to buy a TT525P for $3800. He couldn't even form a complete sentence. Called from a blocked number, which proves my point beyond any shadow of a doubt. No one behaves as men any longer. They WANT to be lied to. So when I refuse to lie to them, they lash out at me instantly and without thought. They desperately want people to say that Tangent Theta is just like nightforce which is just like kahles which is just like vortex which is just like...
They want to believe that its just personal preference. Six of one, half dozen of the other. As long as they can "argue" their opinion without consequence, then they don't have to be uncomfortable with the fact that they don't even have experience with enough scopes to even HAVE an opinion on the matter. In a world where everyone thinks their opinion, no matter how void of experience, should be heard... anyone that demonstrates true experience is labelled an enemy and attacked.
We are the most experienced TT dealer in the nation. Potentially the world. This is a fact. If that fact is stated, I'm attacked without fail. Every time. If people were interested in facts, that wouldn't happen. Instead, people would celebrate the fact someone was dedicated in such a way. Yet me being attacked doesn't stop it from being fact. I'm suppose to be silent about the retarded and soul-less nature of business interactions in todays world. The lukewarm nature of most business owners disgusts me. I'll always do people the favor of being hot, or cold.
A thread full of people talking vague bullshit about a product, and any REAL talk will be attacked. That's the nature of this society filled with snowflakes. It's like this everywhere with everything, not just products we sell. It's everything. Any time someone demonstrates they are exceptional, all anyone wants to do is tear them down. That is why we are presently witnessing the death of the experts. No rational person wants to subject themselves to illogical, over-emotional, and irrational ridicule. No rational person wants to be presented with rhetorical questions to which there is no answer the other party will accept. There is essentially zero motivation for anyone to excel at anything.
Yet people look and wonder why everything is all fucked up all the time? What a joke.
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This thread is really getting out of hand...and has for several days now. It is despicable the way people treat him over there.
They are now claiming that Orkan doesn't have any customers that like him. I am thankful enough for how Greg has treated me that I am going to say something. I hate getting in the middle of these discussions...because logic seems to always give way to the mob mentality...but we need to say something or future customers won't know what they are missing.
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Thank you @dddoo7. You're one of the very very few that have ever stood up to the idiocy and publicly said something.
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It is absolutely amazing how some of these people resort to leftist tactics so quickly.
“I don’t like a guy I wonder if I can hurt his business”
Fuck those guys.
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New here, I have had the chance to purchase from a couple of different shops. Some custom builds and some not. A buddy and I are getting a 6mm creedmoor built by ES tactical (his idea) but that is besides the point. Orkan is a fan by me. and pretty much will always be. He is harsh but only for the benefit of his customers. I can email him a question about a random build I had going on and he would greatly dish out his advise.
The world needs more people like Greg.
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Welcome aboard, and thank you. :)
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I am not a customer...yet. But in reality, the reason I am here and I don't even lurk in Sniper Forum or SnipersHide anymore is because of your posts in those forums. I think I've mentioned this before, your style does come across as harsh, but for those of us that care more about facts, we are adult enough to look beyond "style" and "optics" (no pun intended) and focus on the substance. After meeting you at the spring training, it's unimaginable that any of your customers would be unhappy with you. When I am ready for my high end rifle(s), I won't be going anywhere else.
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@ramirojpc I've viewed you as a customer. I didn't realize you weren't "technically" until right this moment. Just because you didn't fork over cash when you were here, doesn't mean you aren't a customer. You've certainly received services, you've given me payment, and I count you as a customer.
I'd like to speak for a moment regarding my "harsh" delivery. It's strange to me that no one seems to realize I'm only harsh with people that need it. I spoke about the gentleman that visited me earlier in the week. I wasn't harsh with him in the slightest. Point in fact, when speaking directly to my customers I'm very rarely harsh. I'm "harsh" as people put it, when posting publicly. ... and specifically when posting publicly in toxic environments.
While I'm rarely harsh, I'm almost always very direct. I'm a firm believer that truth should be plainly spoken. The old saying, "If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it well enough," stays fresh in my mind. I do not suffer people's feelings or predetermined choices when I'm being asked for help. Nor should I be expected to. I figure if someone is asking me, they are prepared to not only hear the answer, but to implement that answer. The fact is that even when some folks are asking directly, they aren't prepared for the answer if it contradicts their previously established thought process.
Even @dddoo7 described this in his recent thread regarding his 40x. The way I see it, I'm only harsh when people refuse to hear logic. As @alfmoonspace said, I do it for your benefit. Sometimes some uncomfortable words are necessary to have a breakthrough. At my core, that's what I am... a mentor. Just as I have mentors in other areas of my life, I'm a mentor to people... a friend to people. Strangers will watch you screw up, and say nothing. Friends and mentors will scold you, in hopes that you don't get hurt and learn from it. This fact alone should demonstrate just how much I care about peoples success in this sport.
That's the strange truth of it. I care enough about people to have the tough conversations. I'll risk much to show someone the truth. I've not encountered any other person in this industry that has demonstrated that kind of care... which is exactly why Primal Rights was initiated. The lukewarm answers from everyone I was purchasing from was enough to trigger my gag reflex. Still is. I don't know when it was decided that business owners are not suppose to get personal with people... but I don't approve. I take this all very personally.
I'm hugely appreciative of all of you. More so than any of you realize. Those of you that have allowed me to help you, gives me fulfillment. It supersedes all tangible definitions of success. When I look at your targets from years ago, and compare them to your targets today... I'm proud to have been a part of it. That is why I have never considered you NOT to be a customer @ramirojpc. You're certainly a customer. As certain as I'm breathing. I've seen you improve, and I got to help. You've received services, and through your loyalty and continued dedication and participation, your improvement and evolution as a person has paid me. I know full well if there's anything I physically sell that you want to have, you'll look me up. ... but that isn't my motivation. Never has been. How can you put a price tag on loyalty? My definition of a loyal customer has nothing to do with how much money you've spent here. Remember that.
Gunhive exists to advance the cultivation of men. Real men, that hold truth sacred. The topics we discuss reach into every aspect of our lives. We're to be an example to each other and the ever present expectation to be better than we are. My expectations for people are high, but not near as high as my expectations of myself. I only wish more of you were more vocal. Folks, if you don't stand up next to what you believe in... eventually the mob will win.
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@orkan very well said fella. You are a great asset to the shooting community, and provide a excellent service to the ones willing to accept it. Thank you
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@orkan said:
@ramirojpc I've viewed you as a customer. I didn't realize you weren't "technically" until right this moment. Just because you didn't fork over cash when you were here, doesn't mean you aren't a customer. You've certainly received services, you've given me payment, and I count you as a customer.
That is why I have never considered you NOT to be a customer @ramirojpc. You're certainly a customer. As certain as I'm breathing. I've seen you improve, and I got to help. You've received services, and through your loyalty and continued dedication and participation, your improvement and evolution as a person has paid me. I know full well if there's anything I physically sell that you want to have, you'll look me up. ... but that isn't my motivation. Never has been. How can you put a price tag on loyalty? My definition of a loyal customer has nothing to do with how much money you've spent here. Remember that.
Very well said Greg. And although I didn't see myself as a customer because I haven't purchased "stuff" from you, you are right.
You have trained me, helped me, guide me, and given of your experience not expecting anything in return. And these are the reasons I am here. It is extremely rare to find someone that can say "this is the way it is because I've done it enough to speak from extensive experience". In any industry, that is extremely valuable, much more than any $$ value. So thank you for everything that you do to contribute to this industry and for making this community the best on the net for learning and growing in this sport we all love.
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@orkan all I can say is you never once lost patience with me trying to get that 22cm to shoot. You spent countless hours on the phone with numerous ideas to try. Heck you even took time to shoot my rifle in the cold and snow. To give me more wisdom. It was a great learning experience. One I would not have gotten from any other gun dealer. Most places would have said not my problem if you cant shoot. Whidden started to go down that road but changed course and now I have a die that works. Now I am really having fun with the 22cm. So much fun ordered another 22cm barrel 30in 7 twist to launch 95gr your suggestion. Thank You for being who you are. Never change, I have more barrels to add to my DT platform.
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Hey guys I’m a brand new member and customer of Primal Rights. I just wanted say how much I have appreciated Greg’s patience and professionalism he has shown me. He has earned my business and will continue to get my business in the future because of how he tells the truth even though it may not be the most popular or not be what you want to hear.
I look forward to being apart of this forum so I can get no bullshit answers to all my questions.
Greg, never stop sharing your knowledge here and on the other forums, just ignore the idiots, there are a lot of us that need you posting. Thanks for all you do.
Ready to get my new toy!!
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@painless Welcome aboard! Glad to have you.
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I deal with successful business owners that are usually type A personalities. They are masters of their domains, as such want to hear about any true threats to them or their operations. These are individuals that put their money where their mouth is and risked that money to create a business enterprise.
I've had to deal with clients that didn't take advice and suffered for it. What's frustrating in these cases is having to help someone pick up the pieces from something that was totally avoidable. I've had to overcome the temptation to tell them off, but I don't. To me it would be like rubbing salt in a wound. These clients in most cases, remember they could have avoided their troubles had they just listened. I don't give up on them. They tend to become some of my best clients and much more receptive to my advice in the future.It's hard for me to keep my cool sometimes, however I know I serve no ones best interests by telling them you're wrong and I'm fed up with you, or I told you so.
By the way these type A's spend big money on their Likes.
People that don't heed good advice usually face consequences for not doing so. Leaving the door open to to those folks is not an easy thing to do, but then taking the high road seldom is. I realize I'm responsible for sharing my 30 years experience , I can lead them to water, whether they drink or not is on them.
For those that don't listen to anything, I don't let them get my blood pressure up. It's just not worth it.
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I always love the people that say “imagine how much more @orkan would sell if he was like this or that”. People want to jump on the bandwagon to be part of the internet cool kids club and bash people. Instead of just keeping their opinions to themselves and letting their money do the talking. If you don’t like someone and don’t want to support them, spend your money elsewhere.
Sadly to many retailers in all aspects of American life, are completely kiss ass to their customers. The customer is always right mentality has killed honesty when shopping. The customer is not always right. The American shopper has been trained to get whatever they want no matter if it’s right or wrong.
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@norcal_in_az said:
I always love the people that say “imagine how much more @orkan would sell if he was like this or that”. People want to jump on the bandwagon to be part of the internet cool kids club and bash people. Instead of just keeping their opinions to themselves and letting their money do the talking. If you don’t like someone and don’t want to support them, spend your money elsewhere.
Sadly to many retailers in all aspects of American life, are completely kiss ass to their customers. The customer is always right mentality has killed honesty when shopping. The customer is not always right. The American shopper has been trained to get whatever they want no matter if it’s right or wrong.
I don't know that I'm bashing anyone. I try to treat others like I'd like to be treated. That's one of my guiding principles in life. To me that's the Christian thing to do. If I need to take a hit for that, so be it.
