List: Anti 2nd Amendment Companies



  • Gentlemen,
    My hope here is to start a list of companies that oppose the second amendment. The intent is to list companies that are anti gun and if an appropriate (gun friendly) alternative exists put it out there for the community. In the spirit of the intent of this forum, I feel that anything stated here should be supported, either with links, screenshots or what-have-you or be readily verifiable.

    When I say Anti gun, I don't mean places that have given you a bad experience with, or companies that may have other motives (Cheaper than dirt, Troy Ind.) but those companies (Facebook, Ebay) that actually have it in their policy and have been demonstrated to, oppose civilian ownership of firearms.

    We are out funded, on the order of BILLIONS of dollars by these entities that want to destroy our way of life that is not only essential to our survival as free Americans but given to us by the highest law in the land.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    If you're here you probably have a vested interest in gun ownership, and while I realize that it isn't practical or possible to avoid them all the time, we should all do our part to hit them where it hurts (their wallets) whenever possible .

    Respectfully submitted for your consideration,
    Andrew
    RLTW

    Openly Anti 2nd Amendment Companies (as of 3/18):
    EBAY

    PAYPAL

    FACEBOOK

    GOOGLE

    COMCAST

    PANERA BREAD

    TEAM WENDY (Helmet maker) and Subsidiaries (Thanks Rhyno) – Supported the hildabeast during the 2016 campaign

    Anheuser- Busch

    Buffalo Wild Wings – No gun policy in stores/ Didn’t serve uniformed police on a few occasions

    Levis Jeans- Anti gun CEO bans guns in Levi stores

    X Products. (Magazine manufacturer) The owner recently went on multiple anti gun rants, and his wife is fundraising for Everytown USA for her birthday. Irony http://soldiersystems.net/2018/02/20/x-products-owner-james-malarkey-thinks-the-magazines-he-sells-should-be-restricted-by-law/

    First National Bank- Ended NRA sponsorship following Parkland

    Dick’s Sporting Goods- Stop gun sales to people under 21 in wake of Parkland. Also pulled a similar stunt following Sand Hook
    Field and Stream- Owned by Dicks. CEO said they wont feature black guns in the magazine any longer.

    REI- Stopped selling Vista products because they support gun manufactures. (Camebak, Bell, Bushnell, Savage, Alliant Powder and some ammo) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/02/gun-boycott-rei-mountain-equipment-co-op-stop-selling-major-outdoor-brand-due-to-its-weapons-sales-nra-ties/

    Symantac internet security- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    MetLife insurance- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    Alamo Car rental- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    Enterprise car rental- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    National rent a car- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    Hertz car rental and sales- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    Wyndham worldwide resorts and hotels- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    Delta Airlines- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    United Airlines-Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    Daniels Defense- Owner/HBIC supported the FixNCIS following parkland, then walked it back like a pussy. IRONY. I always like DD's shit/got issued a DD upper for my M4 overseas so this pisses me off. @tackyp suggests BCM or Noveske as replacements for CHF chrome lined barrels.



  • PAYPAL
    Paypal is a owned by Ebay

    Paypal has done some shady shit.
    http://gizmodo.com/paypal-has-to-pay-25-million-for-being-sketchy-as-hell-1705630163
    This is a snip from their legal policy, find the original here: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full
    ........relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial intolerance or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

    You might argue that this means you're ok selling some gun related stuff. I say you're with us or against us.

    A quick google search will turn up people who have had their accounts frozen due to them doing something the libtards at paypal deem unacceptable and related to guns.

    As an alternative for online payment I suggest Dwolla. I have used this service in the past, as far as I can tell it's a viable contender to paypal.
    https://www.dwolla.com/
    This is their legal page
    https://www.dwolla.com/legal/tos/
    I've looked and haven't been able to find anyone with issues involving firearms and dwolla. As far as I can find they only have issues with drugs, whores and gambling.



  • I pinned this topic. Great idea!

    Keep a running list by editing your first post ragnarnar.

    Google, Facebook, Home Depot... and I have to run right now, but it won't be hard populating this list.



  • FACEBOOK

    This one we all know is anti gun, lets just get it out of the way
    Facebook bows to Obama and bans private gun sales, confirming what we already know (Mark Zuckerberg and his comrades are all liberal lap dogs)
    http://www.teaparty.org/facebook-bows-obama-banning-private-gun-sales-141579/
    This was buried in their legalese

    Regulated Goods
    We prohibit any attempts by unauthorized dealers to purchase, sell, or trade prescription drugs, marijuana, firearms or ammunition. If you post an offer to purchase or sell alcohol, tobacco, or adult products, we expect you to comply with all applicable laws and carefully consider the audience for that content. We do not allow you to use Facebook's payment tools to sell or purchase regulated goods on our platform.

    Heres the link https://www.facebook.com/communitystandards#

    Work some google foo (actually not google, they're anti gun too) and you'll find multiple gun companies who have had their pages shut down by Facebook.

    As for an alternative? I don't do any of this social media shit. Turn off the computer and go outside (and shoot).



  • GOOGLE

    Google is in fact, anti gun. (Bing and Yahoo too) This is going to be a change for most of us. Google is the default search engine for most people/providers/websites.

    As an example to those who don't know what I mean:

    1. go to google.com
    2. type 'ruger sr9'
    3. press enter
    4. in the left search option bar click "shopping"
      You won't find a gun in there. Just holsters and other accessories

    Here is the letter google sent to people using ADWords (google shopping)

    This is from the firearmblog, read the original because they go into more detail than I do: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/06/28/google-shopping-to-censor-all-gun-ammo-accessories-results/

    Dear Merchant,

    We’re writing to let you know about some upcoming changes to the product listings you submit to Google. As we recently announced, we are starting to transition our shopping experience to a commercial model that builds on Product Listing Ads. This new shopping experience is called Google Shopping. As part of this transition, we’ll begin to enforce a set of new policies for Google Shopping in the coming weeks. A new list of the allowed, restricted, and prohibited products on Google Shopping is available on our new policy page – http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/ApI7UWRj6OCZpd.

    Based on a review of the products you’re currently submitting, it appears that some of the content in your Merchant Center account, HamLund Tactical, will be affected by these policy changes. In particular we found that your products may violate the following policies:

    Weapons

    When we make this change, Google will disapprove all of the products identified as being in violation of policies. We ask that you make any necessary changes to your feeds and/or site to comply, so that your products can continue to appear on Google Shopping.

    To help you through this new set of policies and how to comply with them, we would like to give you some specific suggestions regarding the changes needed to keep your offers running on Google Shopping.

    Weapons

    As highlighted on our new policy page http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/ApI7UWRj6OCZpd, in order to comply with the Google Shopping policies you need to comply first with the AdWords policies http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/StQ08jAzM4fVtG. We do not allow the promotion or sale of weapons and any related products such as ammunitions or accessory kits on Google Shopping. In order to comply with our new policies, please remove any weapon-related products from your data feed and then re-submit your feed in the Merchant Center. For more information on this policy please visit http://www.google.com/appserve/mkt/GbBNIGHOribLzf.

    We’re constantly reviewing our policies, and updating them when necessary, to ensure we’re offering the best experience possible to our users. We’ve identified a set of policy principles to govern our policy efforts on Google Shopping in the U.S. These principles are:

    1. Google Shopping should provide a positive experience to users.
      Showing users the right products at the right time can truly enhance a user’s experience. When people trust us to deliver them to a destination that’s relevant, original, and easy to navigate this creates a positive online experience to the benefit of both users and merchants.

    2 ) Google Shopping should be safe for all users.
    User safety is everyone’s business, and we can’t do business with those who don’t agree. Scams, phishing, viruses, and other malicious activities on the Internet damage the value of the Internet for everyone. Trying to get around policies or “game the system” is unfair to our users, and we can’t allow that.

    1. Google Shopping should comply with local laws and regulations.
      Many products and services are regulated by law, which can vary from country to country. All advertising, as well as the products and services being advertised, must clearly comply with all applicable laws and regulations.
      For the most part, our policies aren’t designed to describe every law in every country. All advertisers bear their own responsibility for understanding the laws applicable to their business. Our policies are often more restrictive than the law, because we need to be sure we can offer services that are legal and safe for all users.

    2. Google Shopping should be compatible with Google’s brand decisions.
      Google Shopping must be compatible with company brand decisions. Our company has a strong culture and values, and we’ve chosen not to allow ads that promote products and services that are incompatible with these values. In addition, like all companies, Google sometimes makes decisions based on technical limitations, resource constraints, or requirements from our business partners. Our policies reflect these realities.

    We’ve given much thought to our stance on this content, as well as the potential effect our policy decision could have on our Merchants, and we apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

    Sincerely,

    The Google Shopping Team

    © 2012 Google Inc. 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043
    You have received this mandatory email service announcement to update you about important changes to your Google Merchant Center account.
    .
    .
    .

    I think Firefox is gun friendly. Its not a corporation (or it used not to be) so it doesn't make money the way google does, and as such I feel ok using it.
    I can't back that up though. I'd like other users input here as to what they use for gun friendly browsing.

    For the ambitious,
    Also I'd recommend that people learn about both Tor browsing (anonymity online; this can be combined with VPN Tunnels for more privacy) and PGP email (massively over encrypted email). I hope it never does, but it may become a requirement someday if we wish to continue to speak freely regarding our rights.

    Threes enough for tonight. I'll keep going later tomorrow. Lets get some other input here



  • COMCAST/NBC

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/19/nbc-parent-company-comcast-now-quietly-rejecting-ads-promoting-firearms-or-weapons/

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/04/25/comcast-anti-gun-policy-smacks-of-political-intimidation-64401

    I've been wading through a ton of legalese crap trying to find anything in their policy that explicitly bans firearms. Because I'm not an advertiser I can't find anyway to view their actual legal policy.

    This is a quote found on the 2A check blog:
    http://www.2acheck.com/boycott-comcast-nbc-universal/

    “Consistent with long standing NBC policies, Comcast Spotlight has decided it will not accept new advertising for firearms or weapons moving forward,” he said in an email. “This policy aligns us with the guidelines in place at many media organizations.”

    Firefox it (doesn't roll off the tongue the way Google does) and you'll find articles and anecdotes referring to their anti gun policy.

    Also a thread from the company help website
    Original: http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Customer-Service/Company-position-on-anti-gun-movement/td-p/1636447

    Re: Company position on anti-gun movement
    Options
    Comcast Policy:

    Consistent with long standing NBC policies, Comcast Spotlight has decided it will not accept new advertising for firearms or weapons moving forward. This policy aligns us with the guidelines in place at many media organizations.

    Since this forum is for help and support of Comcast products, I am locking this thread.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    XfinityTV.com/Xfinity.com Support

    They can't win with words so they censor us.
    Look them up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast
    Their web is so far reaching they're everywhere and almost impossible to avoid. Take a look at the link just to see how far they go.

    Also comcast is pretty consistently voted "most evil company in the world"
    Heres why, the second link spells out the corruption involved.
    http://www.freepress.net/blog/2015/04/01/horrible-evil-terrible-comcast
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110511/22132414243/what-corruption-looks-like-fcc-commissioner-takes-job-comcast-months-after-she-voted-to-approve-its-deal-with-nbc-universal.shtml

    It goes further than that, I'll have to find the links later, but comcast has numerous people in the federal goverment with known links to NBC.

    Its bullshit and I hate it.



  • http://www.2acheck.com/the-boycott-list/comment-page-1/

    There are a few lists like that around. That should give you a nice leg up on getting a good list going.



  • Haven't forgot , sometimes life does get in the way.

    PANERA BREAD

    Don't eat a panera bread folks, they're anti gun. I've eaten there prior to that, I wasn't that impressed so its not like we're missing out on a lot. I can eat healthy at home where I don't pay a premium for it.
    http://www.cnbc.com/2014/09/08/panera-bread-asks-customers-to-not-bring-guns-to-its-restaurants.html

    It's pretty straight forward, don't bring guns to our restaurants, but hey we can't keep you safe either.

    Hows this for tragic irony?
    http://www.ijreview.com/2016/02/536086-panera-bread-ceo-makes-announcement-on-guns/



  • Never heard of this company until today.

    Add Team Wendy to the list.

    http://john1911.com/team-wendy-screwed-you-bad/



  • Yeah I saw that. Shame too, I liked their helmet harnesses when they were issued to me.



  • Just a full list of Team Wendy sister companies.

    http://www.dantmoore.com/companies/



  • http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/robert-farago/anheuser-busch-billionaires-bush-league-ballistic-bashing

    Turns out this asswipe has nothing to do with Anheuser-Busch anymore... so this doesn't look to be the company line for budweiser and the like.

    This guy takes a family company, that has been family owned and operated for 150 years plus... and sells it. THAT is the kind of asshole he is. So of course he has no clue about the Constitution. He hasn't a singular thought for anything other than the accumulation of money.



  • @orkan they own a crap ton of products as well.

    It makes sense since they were bought out by some European group.



  • Need to add Bufalo Wild Wings and Levi to the list.



  • Add X Products to the list. The owner recently went on multiple anti gun rants, and his wife is fundraising for Everytown USA for her birthday.



  • First National Bank

    Details are slim but after some leftist organization outed companies that deal with the NRA they dropped their work with the NRA. (They had a credit card business)

    Now I’m no fan of the NRA, but this was probably a anti-second Amendment move. If I was a business owner, I sure as heck wouldn’t want to do business with an organization that caves to the whims of people.





  • Good Grief.

    https://about.van.fedex.com/newsroom/fedex-responds-questions-national-rifle-association-gun-safety-policy/

    "FedEx Corporation’s positions on the issues of gun policy and safety differ from those of the National Rifle Association (NRA). FedEx opposes assault rifles being in the hands of civilians. While we strongly support the constitutional right of U.S. citizens to own firearms subject to appropriate background checks, FedEx views assault rifles and large capacity magazines as an inherent potential danger to schools, workplaces, and communities when such weapons are misused. We therefore support restricting them to the military...."



  • hey ragnamar

    Can you edit your initial post with updates so we don't have to go through the whole thread to see who NOT to patronize. I've already diverted a few lunches away from Panera bread.



  • @martino1
    Sure thing. Give me a day or two.

    I'll go through and figure out who all cut ties with the NRA and get that listed also.



  • Dick’s should be on there after what they pulled after sandy hook, but if it’s not they should be now.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/dicks-stop-selling-assault-style-rifles-stores-53410826



  • Crap... not going to Dicks is going to suck... no pun intended. There's one under a mile from my house in Sou Fla and the Dicks at the Mills in Tarantum PA is the closest sporting goods store that sells ammo near where I hunt.... I get my hunting license there. SHIT SHIT SHIT



  • You need to add Field and Stream. That is a Dick's subsidiary. Dick's never returned to selling them after Sandy Hook, but they put them in F&S. Now they are taking them out. I saw the Dick's CEO on TV this morning talking about it.



  • Is Team Wendy Wendy's fast food chain or the helmet company?



  • @martino1 helmet company.



  • REÍ and Mountain Co-op.

    Will no longer sell Vist Outdoors products (Camebak, Bell, they also own Bushnell Savage, Alliant Powder and some ammo but they didn’t sell that stuff) because it supports gun manufacturers.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/02/gun-boycott-rei-mountain-equipment-co-op-stop-selling-major-outdoor-brand-due-to-its-weapons-sales-nra-ties/



  • So much emotional reaction when gun violence is prominent in the news. I guess it's pointless to expect out leaders to make decisions based on facts. And it seems we can't even get our federal government to spend much of anything to find out what the facts really might say that they might make educated decisions. Apparently this is all we have so far: Science On Gun Laws

    Seems there's plenty of data actually out there if someone would actually collect and analyze it. When I see such an effort to ban certain types of rifles, I think of the FBI data I've seen showing other types of weapons used in murders exceeding rifles by far, yet no one talks about that.

    There's just so much ignorance and fear when it comes to guns, the public reacts emotionally and our beloved politicians do nothing more than follow suit.



  • It looks like the three main airlines that fly to Sioux Falls, SD from my area are Delta, United and American. I'm looking into airfare to Greg's seminar in May if work permits . Delta and United are out because of their pullout of the NRA discounts which leaves American, who couldn't pull out because they were never in..... If there are problems with American, where does Greyhound stand on the 2nd Amendment???? Amtrak??? I may have to take a stage coach to get there. Good thing the seminar is being held in the spring



  • Sorry for the delay
    List is updated as of today

    I'm sure I missed some. Keep them coming



  • Alamo Car rental- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland
    Enterprise car rental- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland
    National rent a car- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland
    Hertz car rental and sales- Ended NRA partnership following Parkland

    I guess once I get to Sioux Falls, I'm walking to Huron.... Might need to add a day or two to my flight...



  • @martino1 said:

    I guess once I get to Sioux Falls, I'm walking to Huron.... Might need to add a day or two to my flight...

    Most horses are pro 2A, and will let you run a scabbard, unless you count this one:
    alt text



  • Looks like they both use the same dentist.



  • Add this one at your discretion, but they won’t be getting my money.

    do6Sl.jpg



  • @rhyno

    Here you go:

    U1lLRnKh.jpg



  • @rhyno said:

    Add this one at your discretion, but they won’t be getting my money.

    do6Sl.jpg

    Can't see anything but a question mark on my iPad.



  • @martino1 Orkan posted what I posted.

    The owner of Daniel defense calling for more gun laws.





  • Fuck them, they were trying to get eaten last.

    BCM does CHF chrome lined barrels at about the same price.
    Noveske does them too but a a significant markup from the BCM price but they’re a little higher end.



  • I’m glad that we still have the power to be able to do these types of things.

    I won’t be purchasing anything from them for awhile, they’re on probation if you will, keep on making good choices and maybe.

    With that said being ignorant of the proposed bill is no excuse. And I believe in not one more inch so they’ll probably stay on probation until there’s some management changes.



  • @orkan said:

    Someone is back pedaling hard and fast.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/daniel-defenses-marty-daniel-changed-mind-fixnics/

    Guys I totally in no way said exactly what I said Friday! PLEASE STILL GIVE ME YOUR MONEY!!!!!!

    I don't believe how anyone can take this "whoops" seriously..... The guy even said "common sense approach".... which is the anti-gun's favorite broken record phrase. He's only sorry he showed his true colors.



  • Citibank:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/business/citigroup-gun-control-policy.html

    Damn I’m tired of this, why the heck am I more afraid of losing rights now when we have “gun friendly” politicians as a majority? Why are more antigun things making it through now then when the Democrats has a majority in the house and senate along with the president?

    The house just passed a spending bill with Gox Nocs attached to it. Just as many people said we never got reciprocity out of it either.

    This is bullshit.



  • @rhyno said:

    Citibank:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/business/citigroup-gun-control-policy.html

    Damn I’m tired of this, why the heck am I more afraid of losing rights now when we have “gun friendly” politicians as a majority? Why are more antigun things making it through now then when the Democrats has a majority in the house and senate along with the president?

    The house just passed a spending bill with Gox Nocs attached to it. Just as many people said we never got reciprocity out of it either.

    This is bullshit.

    The President is a con man that never gave a shit about gun owners. He just said what gun owners wanted to hear to sucker you into voting for him. And I offer everything he has done concerning guns since getting elected as proof.

    Repubs in Congress are nervous as hell. The overwhelming majority of citizens see this presidency as a disaster. And when you combine that with the typical response of voting out the President's party whenever his first mid-term happens, and there are Republican Reps and Senators that are more paranoid than a cat in a rocking chair factory.

    Just looking at last weeks election in PA alone, where a Republican seat was lost in the House in a Republican-Gerrymandered district, and they can see the writing on the wall. Since basically every one of them is equally as full of shit as the President, they are doing things with gun laws to try and keep hope of winning a vote with some of the middle-of-the-road voters that actually decide elections in most places. Politicians are for the most part soulless hypocrites that will sell your and their own positions out in a second when they see that they may lose their grip on power. Welcome to reality.



  • said:

    He just said what gun owners wanted to hear to sucker you into voting for him.

    Did it really matter though? I mean seriously, it came down to vote for trump or vote for hillary and there was no way in hell I was voting for hillary. The vote for trump certainly wasn't because he was the best guy for the job. The best guy for the job never even gets a shot at it. You can't be right, and most popular, all at the same time. Not in this modern world. Hitler reincarnated could have been running against hillary and hitler would have won. She is that fucking crazy, and everyone knows it.

    So now, because of all this... republicans will get voted out, democrats will have insane power... and they'll take this country to the darkest place we've known since the great depression or the fight for independence. AFTER that happens, we might get a chance at some decent leadership when everyone is begging the real men of this country to fix it.

    ... if we don't get destroyed by a foreign power while all this is going on, that is.



  • @orkan said:

    said:

    He just said what gun owners wanted to hear to sucker you into voting for him.

    Did it really matter though? I mean seriously, it came down to vote for trump or vote for hillary and there was no way in hell I was voting for hillary. The vote for trump certainly wasn't because he was the best guy for the job. The best guy for the job never even gets a shot at it. You can't be right, and most popular, all at the same time. Not in this modern world. Hitler reincarnated could have been running against hillary and hitler would have won. She is that fucking crazy, and everyone knows it.

    So now, because of all this... republicans will get voted out, democrats will have insane power... and they'll take this country to the darkest place we've known since the great depression or the fight for independence. AFTER that happens, we might get a chance at some decent leadership when everyone is begging the real men of this country to fix it.

    ... if we don't get destroyed by a foreign power while all this is going on, that is.

    This discussion could get real deep real fast.

    As for Trump being the "only" choice, there were like 17 candidates standing on the stage at the first Republican debate. I didn't think any of them were spectacular choices, but about all of them were better than Trump. Republicans had the chance to change this outcome a long time before Nov 2016, and yet they failed to change the trajectory of this story. In the end, it was Republican primary voters that created the hold-your-nose choice between Hillary and Trump from the major parties. It didn't have to be that way. But Trump lied about his real gun stance from Day One, and every gun owner that voted for him believed him. For many reasons other than just guns, the election of DJT was the biggest grift in human history. The gun rights issue is just the one we are interested in here.

    As for only having 2 choices, that is exactly the way the powers want you to think. Both the Rs and Ds are OK with losing power in one cycle or another, because they know that they are only a handful of years from being back on top. There are plenty of Dems that were secretly quite happy that Trump won. They knew that the Republicans would get trounced in Nov 2018 with Trump as President, so they were willing to sacrifice these two years to win the long game in both the US and state/local governments.

    Our entire system is set up to keep the scam going. It is like how Pepsi and Coca Cola have both been simultaneously in competition and in collusion to keep any other Cola companies from ever getting a stronghold in this country. Coke wants you to buy Coke, but as long as you buy Pepsi and not RC, then they still win.

    Now take that to how the media is set up. You have Fox/Hannity/Rush/etc screaming from one side, and MSNBC/Kos/Huff/etc screaming from the other side. As long as you either take one of these sides, or get so tired of the noise that you just don't give a shit, both sides are OK in the grand scheme. They both still win in the long run.

    But you know what no side wants you to do? Vote third party. As long as the attitude in this country is that this is a binary, A or B choice, nothing will ever change. It always fails my logic to understand why voters keep voting for the "lesser of two evils", sending their vote to someone they don't really like or agree with on many/most issues. And yet, year after year, they keep doing it. And therefore, year after year, we get the same bullshit.

    Urban Definition of Insanty: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

    PS: And the destroyed by a Foreign power thing? With the ineptitude of our President and his cabinet, I unfortunately see that as a much too real possibility. We already handed economic control of the world to China by trying to be isolationist, it will just probably take a few decades for it to actually play out. Once we are so financially weakened that we can no longer afford the best military in the world, we are in deep shit. Because we are hated by almost everyone, even our so-called allies.



  • Flyingphill

    I have said all along, the two party system is an absolute failure and you hit the nail on the head. Years ago candidates running for governor of the state of Florida had to sue to get involved in a televised debate because they didn't have an R or D next to their names. I taught business seminars in Grenada In 2000 if I recall correctly. There were elections on the island and I noticed that on an island of approximately 280,000 people at the time, there were 4 very active political parties.

    We need to start voting our conscience and NOT for a political party. We as taxpayers have had to put up with extreme crap from the right required to be offset by extreme crap from the left in order to get things done in Washington. If this isn't the quintessential example of a failed political system I don't know what is. The result is a bunch of crap. I believe the disfunction we've had to endure for the last 30+ years is a direct result of our fouled up disfunctional 2 party system.



  • The President well I knew he’d be soft on firearms, he was a democrat for most of his life.

    All these other Republicans though. 99% of those guys aren’t any better then the Democrats.



  • @flyinphill

    You're not wrong... but you certainly are arguing against the wrong guy. I don't disagree.

    Not one singular person that entered the presidential race was the right man for the job.



  • Bank of America has been making headlines lately:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/04/11/bank-america-halting-business-makers-military-style-guns-civilian-use/506223002/

    I lost all respect for them back around 2012(? ish) when they crapped on Mcmillan, who even had a long standing relation (or lack of).

    I suggest any members take their money elsewhere.



  • Any gun owner that is presently banking with them will get no sympathy from me. They were involved in anti-gun stuff years ago. This doesn't come as any surprise.


 

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