Good Cop/Bad Cop



  • Ok, lets have it here.

    Prior to my employment I've never had a negative run in with law enforcement. Maybe I make different life choices or I'm lucky. Sample size of one.

    Most of police want to serve their community, I sure as hell do. I maintain the problem is a few bad apples.

    I also pose the question: Does this country have a police brutality problem?

    Lets hear stories.



  • @ragnarnar I’m no angle but I’m also no criminal. Personally I’ve never been a “victim” of police brutality but I have been a victim of many many accounts of police abusing their authority. I’ve had police repeatedly slam the doors of my truck parked outside my apartment because they assumed I was under age while sitting on my front porch with a beer before ever even checking my ID. I had them take rifles from my truck and screw with the turrets laughing as they did it. I’ve been arrested for simply asking why I was stopped, and had my truck destroyed while it was searched and all my personal belongings thrown out in the ditch. I could keep going on and on but I think my points been made. Just to clarify before anyone jumps to conclusions about me, I’ve never been into drugs of any kind or a big partier/drinker, and am usally pretty mild mannered until I’m treated with deliberate disrespect. With all that said I believe there are good cops and bad, the bad give the good a bad reputation. There are very very few that do not in some way big or small abuse their authority.



  • Is the "a few bad apples" approach any consolation to innocent people that have been targeted by police?

    @bull81 said:

    There are very very few that do not in some way big or small abuse their authority.

    VERY few indeed. ... and that's not even mentioning the ridiculous number of totally out of control prosecutors.



  • End Qualified Immunity and the taxpayers having to pay off on Civil Suits and a lot of the problem goes away.
    End Civil Asset Forfeiture until after a Jury reaches a guilty verdict.

    Many rural areas could get by with a largely volunteer Sheriff Department much like Fire Fighting.

    Most police work is Cleanup on Isle 6 type of after the fact anyhow.



  • Part of the training that LEOs (that acronym can reference law enforcement officers, or, as I call them, legally entitled to oppress) receive is in how to lie and get away with it.

    These “legal” lies can include telling a suspect that police have evidence they don’t have, or have obtained confessions they have not obtained, or even posing as a prisoner in a jail cell who is simply “shooting the breeze” with a fellow prisoner with the express purpose of obtaining evidence of a crime.

    https://personalliberty.com/cops-are-trained-liars-and-courts-have-sanctioned-the-practice/



  • Peel's Principles of Policing have been lost on many departments.
    I will post them when I'm home.
    Shopping for 44 and 9mm right now.
    Future Son-in-law has a long ported barrel 44 Magnum his grandfather left to him.

    Guess I'll have to get dies for it too.



  • Hey Hypo still waiting on Peel's Principles.

    As far as my experience with LE. About 17 years ago I had a red corvette and I got a speeding ticket for 72 in a 55 and I literally had the cruise set on 55. I was a little steamed about that but got over it.

    Just recently I was heading over to my local gun shop and I was looking at the GPS on my phone while driving and ran a yellow/red light. Got pulled over. I provided both by DL and my carry to the officer. He asked me if I was carrying and I said of course. He called in another unit and asked me to keep my hands where he could see them. I put them on the door window sill. He said that wasn't necessary and the steering wheel would be just fine. He called another unit in to check the validity of the Carry Lic.. Meanwhile were talked about where what I shoot and what kind of db reduction I was expecting from the suppressor I was getting. Everything checked out fine and at the end the cop asked, "you know why I stopped you don't you?" I said yes it was my fault and that I got turned around and I was looking at my GPS. I had no intention of running the light. He let me go with a, "don't do it again."

    I treat cops with respect and I've been treated well in return, in general. I've never been in a high profile situation where DA's and defense attorneys were involved.

    I recently heard about an insurance policy from a handgun shooting instructor that covers legal costs in the event you shoot someone in self defense. He said that most policies require that you pa\pay the company back for legal expenses they cover if you are found guilty of a reduced crime somehow but there was a company out there that didn't require it. He it wasn't through NRA and said it cost about $12-15/mo. Might need to track that company down. It might help if I run into that Bad Apple.

    Regardless With Cops, I treat them the way I'd like to be treated if I were holding the badge, bracelets and a gun and had a tough job to do..... With Respect...



  • https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-consent/definition-of-policing-by-consent

    The principles which were set out in the ‘General Instructions’ that were issued to every new police officer from 1829 were:

    To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
    To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect.
    To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.
    To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.
    To seek and preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion; but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance of individual laws, by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing, by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour; and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.
    To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.
    To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
    To recognise always the need for strict adherence to police-executive functions, and to refrain from even seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary of avenging individuals or the State, and of authoritatively judging guilt and punishing the guilty.
    To recognise always that the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them.



  • If modern cops followed that list AT ALL, there would literally be no one except the very worst of society that disliked cops. Instead cops demand you obey every single thing they say, no matter how grievous the damage to your rights are, and if you don't immediately comply like a mindless drone, they escalate force as far as they possibly can without losing their jobs. That's why it's so important to have a camera on them at ALL TIMES in any situation you're involved in, and especially those where cops are present. Dash cams and stealth body cams, with audio. Technology is GREAT! :)

    People of Peel's day also didn't count on the fact that there would be so many laws written that every human being will break an average of 8 of them per day.





  • said:

    I want to see the video.

    The video is out. I've seen it... just don't recall where.

    Disgusting to watch... but completely unsurprising.



  • http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/11/robert-farago/chicago-cop-marco-proano-faces-8-years-in-jail-for-shooting-16-rounds-into-stolen-car/

    Right around 1:50 in the video you can see him start shooting. Textbook brainless inner city thug handgun technique is demonstrated.



  • @orkan If he had killed one of the kids, under Federal Law, he could have gotten the Death Penalty.

    https://www.justice.gov/crt/deprivation-rights-under-color-law

    Don't know the last time that ever occurred.

    State Court would have only been a Civil Case most likely.



  • http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/12/robert-farago/arapahoe-county-colorado-cops-shoot-suspects-car-50-times-miss/

    “A CBS4 Investigation has learned Arapahoe County Deputies and Colorado State Troopers poured more than 50 shots into a stationary car in March believing the driver was armed. It now turns out she was only armed with either a dustbuster or tire jack but emerged unscathed. However at least one deputy inadvertently shot up a marked state patrol unit during the unusual standoff.” And here’s how this ballistic bufoonery began . . .

    Johnson subsequently called police and in slurred tones, said that she was armed with an Ak-47 and intended to kill as many police as possible. “I want to kill cops,” said Johnson on the taped call. “I’m gonna kill all the cops I can. I have a gun, have a machete, have an AK-47.”

    “Those deputies and troopers showed a lot of restraint in not causing a further confrontation,” said [Arapahoe County Sheriff Dave] Walcher.

    In about 30 minutes, from approximately 75 feet away, deputies and troopers fired 55 rounds at Johnson’s car from AR-15 rifles, .40 caliber pistols, and a shotgun. Not a single round hit her.

    Photos of the crime scene obtained by CBS4 also show that in the bursts of gunfire, an Arapahoe County deputy accidentally shot up a state patrol cruiser. Reports suggest the patrol vehicle was struck 28 times. The deputy was standing immediately behind the car but was apparently unaware that many of his shots intended for Johnson were actually hitting the patrol car.



  • Bore axis offset must not have crossed his mind.



  • @rhyno Things like this are proof positive that police are some of the LEAST competent gun owners on the planet. The amount of shots fired and the number of hits in a typical police shooting is demonstration of that fact. Yet, they will pull that pistol out of the holster and point it at people constantly. Sad lack of training and discipline.

    @rhyno said:

    “Those deputies and troopers showed a lot of restraint in not causing a further confrontation,”

    Restraint? I suppose only firing 55rnds instead of 350 is restraint?

    Watch the video. The cops said she shot first.
    "unfortunately some things may, go out... that aren't... specifically accurate." Oh, you mean some cops will lie through their teeth whenever it suits them?

    This chic was clearly nuts or on drugs or both... so it wouldn't have hurt my feelings no matter the outcome. ... but just another example of how situations get escalated by police, and then attempt to cover it up. This chic will sue them, and she'll win.



  • Yea that quote was a complete head scratcher, baffling.



  • I would think that after 5 minutes and no movement or sound from the vehicle that one of them would have gone and looked into the car.



  • Vomit. needs to be a Federal 18 USC 242 death penalty case.
    Video was NOT admitted to the trial.
    Not guilty verdict of 2nd degree Murder.
    Over charged by DA.
    Judge not allowing the video is insanity.
    If you are not going to admit video, why even have it?
    If clear video evidence is not admitted, how can there be Justice?

    “When injustice becomes law, Resistance becomes duty”-Thomas Jefferson



  • @hypo Absolutely disgusting.

    NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE can comprehend and follow precise motor function instruction when they are under duress. NO ONE! So when a person in "authority" is screaming at you at the top of their lungs when people are pointing guns at you, and you're shitting your pants in fear... you simply are not going to have the ability to control every motion of your body.

    This is a PROVEN physiological fucking fact. Couple that with the fact that people whom wear baggy clothes and are a bit chubby are CONSTANTLY as a matter of habit, reaching and pulling up their pants... and yes, they fucking executed that guy. Premeditated. "If you put your hands down, we're going to shoot you." Then they tell him to crawl toward them, which he MUST PUT HIS FUCKING HANDS DOWN TO DO. They executed him. Guy was doing everything in his power to comply. Quivering voice obviously indicative he's fucking paralyzed with fear.

    Instead of being calm, collected, and negotiating their way through the situation... the cop just screamed in his face to obey or you'll be shot. Cops typically escalate every single situation they are in, and they do it JUST LIKE SHOWN IN THAT VIDEO. They always talk about safety and how cops safety is so important. Well if they want it to be safe, maybe they should stop making EVERY situation they are in UNSAFE by saying and doing ALL the things that cause situations to spin out of control.

    Anyone with half a brain can tell what went on in that video. They might not be guilty in court, but those guys are going to burn.

    Remember folks, they can do the same thing to ANY OF US, anytime they want. Someone can call and claim ANYTHING they want, and the police will automatically side with that anonymous caller and come and ruin your fucking life. They will show up at your place in full swat deployment and expect you to mentally be on the same page as them, even though you were just sitting down eating a steak and watching TV a few seconds before they got there... and if you can't immediately get on the same page, they'll fucking kill you at worst or imprison you at best, and NOTHING will happen to them when you later prove they were wrong and someone lied.



  • Textbook example of what the Second Amendment was to be the counterbalance to.

    These guys have no fear of the citizens.



  • https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/a-police-killing-without-a-hint-of-racism/546983/

    They’d already begun drinking when one of the guests asked about an unmarked case in the corner. Was it musical instrument? No, a pellet gun. He used it at work. His job was to go hunt down birds that had flown into businesses including Walmart. Soon he was standing by his room’s window showing off his pellet gun to the man. Down below, two motel guests in the La Quinta Inn and Suites hot tub looked up and saw a man with a gun near a fifth-floor window. Someone called 911.

    Think about how easy this kind of mindset makes it for cops to kill ANY gun owner.

    The way police treat gun owners in situations like this borders insanity. If a cop hears "gun" it seems they automatically decide they are going to show up with hostile intent. They aren't "investigating" to learn the truth. Instead, they decide ahead of time that there is a threat, and they're going to shoot them if they decide to.







  • 719.gif



  • This is walking distance from my house. Seriously, that pasture adjoins land that I used to own and sold in 2014.
    We will be getting a new Sheriff and District Attorney next election cycle.
    The citizens here are really pissed.
    Grand Jury will probably throw it out.

    http://www.11alive.com/mobile/article/news/investigations/handcuffed-hero-good-samaritan-arrested-after-saving-womans-life/85-512864348





  • @straightshooter1
    18 USC 242 Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law carries the Death Penalty.

    The Sheriff showed complete disdain for due process as did the Deputies that complied with a criminal order.

    That just following orders defense didn't work at Nuremberg.

    This needs to be a Federal Criminal Case not a Civil Case.

    Stuff like this keeps up and we will see the return of Blood Feuds.



  • Good news on my local story.
    Public outcry and no telling how many phone calls worked.
    Charges dropped.

    http://www.11alive.com/mobile/article/news/investigations/charges-dismissed-against-good-samaritan-arrested-after-saving-womans-life/85-516197822



  • The whole Florida shooter story.
    FBI Failed
    Local sheriffs and cops failed
    And the school resource officer failed to do anything for 4 minutes while kids were being shot and killed.

    I guess possibly 4 officers

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=dwbrand





  • I saw clips of that on the news last night. And within a few minutes on the same newscast another San Franciscan (150 y.o dinosaur) was flappin' her gums about banning all semi-autos I believe....well just to law-abiding citizens anyhow! (facepalm)



  • What good are police?
    Police have morphed from the quaint notion that they were once “peace officers” into the reality that they are “law enforcers.” But as the late columnist William Norman Grigg pointed out, policing was militarized from the start. LEOs see it as their job to “enforce” the law no matter what it takes, no matter how ridiculous the law may be or even regardless of whether the law actually exists. Most of the laws they enforce are victimless crimes (traffic laws, pedestrian laws, gun possession, prostitution, drug use, etc.) with laws forbidding those acts created to serve as revenue streams for local government and/or to steal the people’s liberties.

    https://personalliberty.com/what-good-are-police/





  • @orkan I just watched about 5 minutes of it but gonna wait til I get somewhere and can watch the whole thing. What I saw is complete bullshit and fits right in with 99.9% of my experience with law enforcement. Bunch of little bitches with bullshit authority.



  • I feel it was good that this video also showed a report that 19 of 31 department locations tested followed policy. But this shows there's just way too many doing kind of BS when they're supposed to be serving the public.

    Having worked for a sheriffs department for just a few years and felt lucky to be part of a good organization, it was a pleasure because we had such great caring people at the helm and in the field. One wouldn't find this kind of thing going on there.

    It's no secret that these kinds of things go on all over the country and some people choose to be naive about that.

    It seems there's just too much testosterone being hired in some of these departments. :-{



  • Testosterone being hired into the departments isn't the real problem. If the other officers created an environment where the juiceheads were discouraged by both example and self-regulation, they would never feel free to act in such ways. The real problem is that police officers put themselves, and more specifically the protection of fellow officers, above the law and the US Constitution.

    The number one job of LE is to protect citizens while acting within the confines of the laws of this country. But upholding the Constitution is not their primary goal, holding up the Thin Blue Line take precedent over everything else. The dickhead cops on these videos just prove it. Everyone watching this knows why they all wanted to know the who, where, and what the complaint was about. Because they wanted to go tip off the officers in question and help them cover up.

    Every police officer I have ever discussed these issues with always tell me that they know this stuff happens, but they aren't the ones doing it. Well, somebody is doing it. And if an officer knows of misconduct by another officer and doesn't say anything, he/she is just as guilty as the officer committing the offense. Every single LE in this country has, on multiple occasions, chosen to not report a fellow officer acting poorly. Therefore they are complicit in the problem. They all have participated in the conspiracy at one level or another, and any LE that says otherwise is full of shit.



  • @straightshooter1 said:

    I feel it was good that this video also showed a report that 19 of 31 department locations tested followed policy.

    Not sure where you are getting these numbers. They tested 38 departments and only THREE did what they were suppose to do.



  • @orkan said:

    @straightshooter1 said:

    I feel it was good that this video also showed a report that 19 of 31 department locations tested followed policy.

    Not sure where you are getting these numbers. They tested 38 departments and only THREE did what they were suppose to do.

    It did say at the end that 19 of them followed policy



  • Holy Crap. A lot of that stuff is in my back yard.



  • @orkan said:

    @straightshooter1 said:

    I feel it was good that this video also showed a report that 19 of 31 department locations tested followed policy.

    Not sure where you are getting these numbers. They tested 38 departments and only THREE did what they were suppose to do.

    Go to 31:56 of the video



  • Oh, right... that was a different channel and a different "documentary" than the one in the first half of the video.

    Different departments. This video is a compilation of several. It can't even be argued that the majority do the right thing. Even if the rate were 75% (which it's not even close) that were transparent in their duties... it would still be too low a percentage.



  • I think the numbers are a bit confusing because this is not one long, continuous report. It is in fact several different TV news reports strung together. So the numbers reported apply to the one specific report int hat section. The 19 out if 31 was in Long Beach, CA. The 3 out of 38 was the very first report done in South FL.



  • @flyinphill Right.
    ... and if go google some numbers on various cop watchdog sites, most of these tests reveal hostile and uncooperative police.

    That's what happens when you're dealing with people that don't serve their community but rather want to control their community.



  • Looks like we posted identical responses at almost identical times. LOL

    And you are preaching to the choir with all of this. I am a 51 yo white professional with no criminal background, and I have virtually no trust in LE anywhere, anytime. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a 25 yo man with brown skin in this country.

    I know there are plenty of LE on these sites, most don't say anything. But they should be following threads like this and realizing that they have a problem. They are the problem. If people like me have total distrust of them, then they are doing their job completely wrong. But I guarantee you that every one of them reading my post right now is bouncing around blame in their heads on me, you, the media, liberals, NAACP, CNN, Obama, a few bad cops, and anyone and anything besides themselves. It is never their fault.



  • As if we need any more proof

    http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206302034.html

    This guy was in his grandmother's backyard when he got gunned down. The cops claimed he had a gun, then later claimed he had a black tool or wrench in his hands he was using to bust out car windows. He had a white cell phone.

    The actual shooting events start about 7:45. But it is worth watching to see how these jokers act after the fact, telling him to put his hands behind his back after they shot him about 10 times, then wanting to stun gun him first before approaching to make sure he is really dead.

    The only positive thing I can say about any of this is that, at this point, it doesn't look like the Sacramento Police Department is trying to hide what happened too much. This was 3 or 4 days ago and they already released these body cams. Of course they do stop the audio at the end when the cops and their sergeant are probably discussing the fact that there is no weapon on the scene and they just killed an unarmed
    dude.



  • http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-shows-deputies-watch-naked-inmate-dies-cell-floor-article-1.3880469

    According to the ‘official’ police report, Holland was “found unconscious and unresponsive” in his cell and prior to dying and he was “under the continual care of a physician” at the time. However, according to the video obtained by the Tribune, Holland was not unconscious at all. He was seen writhing in agony only moments before he lost consciousness and died. What’s more, no physician was constantly present during his 47 hours of torture. Had they been present, Holland may still be alive.

    holland-tortured-696x366.jpg

    They strapped this guy in a chair and left him there in his own piss and shit for two days. A blood clot formed, from not being able to move... and he died. These fucking cops tortured and murdered this guy, and are seen on video laughing about it. Zero punishment.



  • https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/09/daniel-zimmerman/maryland-home-owner-wont-be-charged-after-shooting-cops-in-wrong-house-raid/

    I was waiting for something like this to happen, the informant and whoever authorized the raid should be charged. This dude is lucky and if I were him I’d move out of the state.


 

Looks like your connection to Gunhive was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.