Bigfoots RRT



  • I headed to the range yesterday to try another round with my 458 Socom and a .243 Winchester I have been messing with off and on for a year or so. I loaded thirty five rounds of 458 and I had some .243 already loaded from a ladder test that got cut short. I really had confidence in the big bore with some 300 grain Hornady hollow points so I set the powder measure up throwing on the light side of 33 grains of I 4227 and trickled up to 33.3 grains before dumping it in cases primed with CCI 350's. I also loaded five each of 325 grain Hornady FTX with the same primers different powder. The 300's just don't quite have it in the accuracy department, at least with this powder/primer combination. Recoil is stout and if I didn't have a good hold I got flyers that spoiled every group. To start the session off I pulled up to the range and realized I had no shooting bags, front or rear but I had a bipod. Almost thirty miles back to the house and I wanted some fried chicken anyway so I went into El Campo and swung by the gun shop there and borrowed a rear bag, a real tall one. I wasn't too happy and the SOCOM was beating me up so I shot the .243 a while with factory ammo and got it zeroed but it shot the factory stuff pretty crappy. I think this rifle has a headspace problem, it flattens the heck out of primers even on or below starting loads. Another guy showed up and I did a target swap when he was ready and I shot the last groups in the picture on one target. I didn't touch the scope on the 458 but had to come up about four inches on the .243. The 458 load was the 325 grain FTX's pushed by 35.0 grains of A 1680. I had shot these before but I bought three boxes of the 300 grain projectiles and want to use them. A little cheaper to shoot. The .243 load was 95 grain Berger VLD Hunting loaded with 43.0 grains of H 4831 SC with CCI bench rest primers. All shooting was done sitting off of a concrete bench at 100 yards with a bipod and rear bag. As usual refer to your manual for load data this is for comparison only.
    458 SCOM
    Savage Short Action/Accu Trigger
    McGowen SS 1-14 twist barrel---- McGowen Turbo Brake
    Optics
    Viper 6.5 x 20
    Nightforce 20 moa rail
    La Rue low QD rings
    Stock
    Tupperware with factory bedding

    243 Winchester
    NEF Handi Rifle
    Lapped chamber by me
    Factory trigger set at 3.5-4 pounds
    Optics
    Nikon Monarch 5x20x44 Side Focus
    EGW rail
    Leapers QD rings (modified)
    Stock
    Factory plastic with a bushing installed to free float the barrel
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  • Looks like fun. A socom with suppressor would make an awful quiet hog gun.



  • That 243 is really shooting. :)



  • I don't think they make NEF HandyRifles like that every day.



  • @tscustoms said:

    I don't think they make NEF HandyRifles like that every day.

    It shot the factory 100 grain Winchester Power Points like a shotgun, all over the place. Anything over 100 grains is a guess where they will go. When I shot the first loads with the Berger's I thought something was bad wrong, like I was missing completely and after the third shot realized I was making the hole bigger. May just be a fluke, I need to chronograph these and see if they have enough speed to stay stable. According to my notes these projectiles have a .200 jump to the riflings in my hand loads.



  • @bigfoot .200 jump? That's almost a 1/4". Was that a typo?



  • @norcal_in_az said:

    @bigfoot .200 jump? That's almost a 1/4". Was that a typo?

    Regretfully, no typo. I just rechecked with my comparator that is supplied with the Hornady set for 6mm and against the riflings only puts about .060 into the neck of the case. I seated these I believe with .240 in the neck yielding an overall length of 2.750 and that makes about a .200 jump. I have some other projectiles that get the ogive closer but not the Berger's. I'm surprised they even make it to the target. I wonder how long the throat will last with that much exposed or if that is even something to worry about.
    If I go back to the range and repeat what I did last week I'm buying some lottery tickets.



  • My rifle seems to like a long jump on anything I shoot through it.



  • Well, got to start over with the SOCOM. I pulled it out of the safe to clean it today and was sitting there staring at it in a trance as it lay in the cradles and for some reason reached over and squeezed the barrel and fore end of the stock together and felt it give. Flipped it over and the front action screw was out two full turns. The back one was snug, maybe ten inch pounds. Guess I will have to carry a torque wrench around in my hip pocket. Maybe a Boyd's stock will do it. On the plus side the cheaper 300 grain hollow points might perform better than I think. Poo poo is all I can say. I shot the rimfire challenge yesterday, lawdy mercy. I had insomnia last night.



  • @bigfoot

    At least it is an easy fix.



  • @dddoo7
    Here comes the Locktite.



  • @bigfoot

    A Quality torque wrench will suffice. I have never used loctite on action screws.



  • Where do I start? First attempt, no cherry picking targets. I don't swing that way. Went to the range 26 October one day ahead of a cold front and usually the wind comes out of the south pretty good and that day was no exception. I had a window to shoot when I got there but I passed on putting up targets with the shooters that were there just to get unpacked and use the can and such. The warning lights turned off and the range was hot so I was setting my stuff out on the back tables and i heard a shot, sounded strange. Shooter two benches to my right lit one off right through the roof. The other guys to my left didn't see it and the guy was just sitting there staring at his Golden Boy with the but of it in his thigh and the barrel sticking straight up. I waited until this guy was locking the gate on the way out before I approached the bench. There went my window. Anyway, my first attempt was shot with bulk Federal ammo that was in my Polaris for no telling how long and was an accident. I crammed the magazine in my rifle without even looking and after a few shots at the sighter targets I decided to make an adjustment. Shot a couple more then dropped the mag out and saw hollow points. I had been shooting Federal HV match and didn't want to change but now I screwed with the scope and said the heck with it ride it out and start over. I had some more bulk Federal in my bag so I ran it. Re-zeroed on the scoring target and shot two pages. Got a 470 then a 380, loaded up and hit the all you can eat pizza buffet then the gun shop and back just in time to shoot in some really blustery wind. I shot one more round trying to judge the wind but I couldn't do it. Time to go.
    Yesterday, second attempt. No drama, some wind, several members enjoying the range when I arrived. Flags were popping a little at the gate but the direction it was blowing from didn't feel bad at the benches. Later though it came around to the south more and might have either helped or hurt me, too early for me to even make sense. No more old ammo, no Golden Boy, a beautiful day. On target one see the three zero's in a row? All I did was fluff the front bag and reposition it. When I start hitting zero's Its usually after messing with the front bag. Got to get a grip on that or I will be staying after school the rest of my life. A couple of clicks right wouldn't have hurt either. I shot two rifles yesterday. The first was my Savage rabbit gun then a Winchester Wildcat that is a Starling killing machine about thirty yards with CCI Quiet's through a suppressor. The trigger on this thing is heavy. Pass out run out of air heavy but, I scored as good with it or better than the Savage with a 2.5# trigger. I have a lot of work to do. I love it. I will drop the pictures of my results later this evening in a separate reply.
    Rifles Used
    Savage Mark II fluted suppressor ready
    First attempt suppressed with Yankee Hill Mite attached/second attempt no suppressor
    Boyd Tacticool stock DIP bottom metal/Shimmed but no bedding
    Hawke Eclipse 4x16 / Leupold QD mounts on the factory rail
    Winchester Wildcat threaded for a suppressor / no suppressor in the attempt
    Hawke 3x9 Vantage Rimfire scope in Warne rings
    All factory stock that has been shortened as well as the barrel for suppressor use



  • Lets see if I can do this a little faster with the pic's. I did go to the range with a friend of mine today but we got rained out. I got to shoot his Winchester Model 52 target rifle a few times. That peep sight was tough for my eyes. I have a phone picture of the rifle it's a nice one. Any way I hope I get these in the right order so they make sense. I got one out of order and actually shot the Wildcat that afternoon. And there's Ole Bigfoot Wallace himself. Interesting character from a page in Texas history.

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  • @bigfoot
    Just realized my last couple of posts don't belong here. Duhh.



  • I took the 513 to the range this morning to give it a whirl. Sure wish I had a better scope but this all caught me by surprise. Since this is a returnable purchase I had to keep my curious little fingers out of it and shoot it like it came without taking anything off or screwing any screws. I dug around my cabinet and found the scope in a box another scope came in and mounted it yesterday and didn't even bore sight it just let her go at twenty five yards. Center X is about twenty cents each but I didn't waste too many, hit the paper first shot and needed to shoot a few to foul the barrel anyway. The wind was at my back but gusting so I don't feel too bad with my shooting. Wasn't a one hole display but better than my usual one here and one over there samples. I guess I will keep it, not too bad for a rifle made when my dad was a teenager.
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  • I shot at dots today with my 513. I put a SS16x Classic on it with a Weaver adapter so it's kind of high but this is temporary. One target was shot using bags and the other a bipod. I tend to shoot high with the bipod but after the second line of dots I changed my hold and brought it back down. Shots were going right also not from wind but the coarse adjustment of the scope. One click back the other way was too much also. Wasn't too good regardless, can't put the entire blame on the equipment. Shooting from bags I have a softer hold and seem to do better just got to get more time in. I can see this ain't going to happen in a few trips to the range and a brick of ammo. I must have got a fair deal on a brick of Center X, I paid $91.00 for it and Midway sells it ( out of stock now ) for more than that. I'm going through it pretty fast though so I might have to try something a little less expensive. I did some 100 yard shooting with a 22 Mag also, I got to think about that for a while.
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  • @bigfoot said:

    I shot at dots today with my 513. I put a SS16x Classic on it with a Weaver adapter so it's kind of high but this is temporary. One target was shot using bags and the other a bipod. I tend to shoot high with the bipod but after the second line of dots I changed my hold and brought it back down. Shots were going right also not from wind but the coarse adjustment of the scope. One click back the other way was too much also. Wasn't too good regardless, can't put the entire blame on the equipment. Shooting from bags I have a softer hold and seem to do better just got to get more time in. I can see this ain't going to happen in a few trips to the range and a brick of ammo. I must have got a fair deal on a brick of Center X, I paid $91.00 for it and Midway sells it ( out of stock now ) for more than that. I'm going through it pretty fast though so I might have to try something a little less expensive. I did some 100 yard shooting with a 22 Mag also, I got to think about that for a while.
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    At $91 s brick I would buy a couple cases.



  • That was the only one at the gun shop. I opened it and a box was missing and he deducted it from the price. They were so busy yesterday when I went there for a break I wanted to see if he could get some more at that price but they were covered up. I got a text from a guy in Houston that has a Kimber 82 for sale but I'm tapped right now. I had another one for some kind of Buck Rogers looking target rifle but when I googled it, oh my gosh the price.



  • Those fenny's are amazingly cool rifles. I don't know if I could pass one up if offered one by a local guy.



  • About a month ago I did a little experiment I guess you would say with my Savage 22 I have been messing with shooting the challenge targets and what not. I put my wife behind the trigger for a go at it. We've been married 38 years and have known each other longer than that and to my knowledge she has never shot a rifle with a scope for optics. We've done a little red dot shooting with the 22 and pistol shooting as well but no scopes. She had eye surgery early in the summer for cataracts and got new lenses for astigmatism to correct that so her eyes are in pretty good shape$$$$$$. Look at the target and make a conclusion. I have made one so don't worry I won't be offended. This was shot with CCI mini Mags at fifty yards on a bench with a bipod. No wind and perfect lighting.
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  • I conclude you need to get her some better ammo. :)



  • @orkan Do you guys tend to shoot 22 ammo that is sub or supersonic?



  • Most ammo worth shooting is subsonic...although it doesn’t all say that on the box.

    I have had very acceptable results with center x. Wolf is decent, eley is ok, but not worth the money in my opinion.

    TPK uses something that is cheap, but still pretty good. Geco or something.



  • I've been shooting gemtechs because of how quite they are and they are pretty consistent. I would like to see how they stack up compared to center-x or eley's on a sound level and out at 50-100 yards.



  • @dddoo7 csm_Randfeuer_Rifle_Verpackung_f1bbca9166.png

    I use this ammo. not as good as center X,but does pretty good for the price.
    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/730631862



  • Geko and Norma are manufactured by RWS.
    RWS also makes the Federal Gold Medal Ultra Match.



  • I use Lapua, RWS, and Eley mostly.

    Lapua Center-X is a great value.



  • @orkan
    The third row bull's eye had me sucking air. I had to tighten up but my first shot went way south. It's weird how when we handed off for each round our first shots went low and right. I guess that's a sign of inexperience.



  • @bigfoot said:

    @orkan
    The third row bull's eye had me sucking air. I had to tighten up but my first shot went way south. It's weird how when we handed off for each round our first shots went low and right. I guess that's a sign of inexperience.

    Not necessarily. It could be inexperience...but it could also be the rifle.



  • @dddoo7
    That is one hard to shoot little rifle. It is very sensitive to hold and I just about know when a shot is bad when the firing pin connects. I can see the subsonic bullets path to the target through the scope and know the results before it happens also. This may sound weird but the path of the projectile seems to exit and go to the left and spiral back to the right for centered hits. If i don't see this path the shot will be bad. Hard to see the high velocity rounds but every now and then I see one if the sun is right. From what little I have shot the old 513 I don't see this spiral path, sometimes I don't see the projectile at all before impact. If I do see it there is just a slight arc and a pulled shot will be similar to the Savages flight patterns. Am I crazy?



  • I decided to check my 300 Blackout sub sonic zero Friday. The last time I shot a target with it the temperature was in the ninety's. Mid fiftie's Friday morning at the ranch. It shot a little low so I don't know if it was because of the lower temperature or just me. I use Lil' Gun in these sub loads and it is supposedly temperature sensitive on the high end not so sure about reduced. I missed a big nasty pig that was around two hundred yards but my zero is a hundred and my scope has no hold over marks so it's a guess. If I can see an impact I can usually lob one in at that range but there was too much grass to show any dust. Wife had the camcorder going but I couldn't see any hits just pigs hauling ass through the grass. Huh, that rhymed. Target was placed at 92 yards. This is not a good AR load unless you like single shots.
    Remington 700 / Timney trigger
    Bushnell 3x9 illuminated (cheap)
    SRT Shadow Suppressor
    208 grain A Max Sub Sonic
    8.0 grains Lil' Gun
    Converted remington .223 Brass
    CCI Small Rifle Magnum Primer
    OAL 2.200"
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  • I pulled my Winchester Wildcat .22 out and sighted it back in for CCI Quiets. The box claims 710 FPS but I get around 650 with my chronograph out of this short rifle. With a suppressor it barely makes a sound but the 40 grain segmented hollow points pop pretty good when they hit something. I set a target at 35 yards and did some adjusting then tried a challenge target. The scope is a 3x9 Hawke Rimfire model that does a good job for it's price range. I almost snuck a couple of 100's in there bad trigger and all. You can see the pellets from my single stroke air rifle embedded in the plywood but these powder charges even at 650 fps will splinter a 3/4 cabinet grade plywood slab. I got a couple of wild ones in there when I was dialing my new zero.
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  • I finally got a ream of the tan paper to print targets with last week. Wouldn't you know my damn printer refused to print anything yesterday. I installed new cartridges and still nothing. Installed updated software the works, nada. My wife came over to the shop and I asked her about it because she has dozens of printers her students use to compete with and she said make sure the cartridges haven't expired. Well they were March 2017 but I have used old ones before. She just about talked me into getting a lazer jet that only prints but guess what? I fired it up this morning and ran a test print and yippee it worked. I guess gravity had to get the ink where it belongs. Don't know don't care. The printer groaned a little bit with the thicker paper. Targets look good on the tan, sure hope It helps my tired eyeballs. Bird count is at one so far today, wish I had a scope camera.



  • I hit the range yesterday after four hours of bookkeeping and ended up with a headache so I needed a diversion. I think I have a pretty good load for My CZ 527 223 I bought used a couple of years ago and earlier last year I loaded some of the same load in new General Dynamics brass. The better group was loaded in Remington once fired neck sized brass and the targets speak for themselves. So, where do I go from here? Neck size the new fired brass or start over with the charge and resize maybe with a little bump? With the tools I have to measure fired brass out of this chamber it appears the shoulder doesn't change much. I might remeasure the GD brass against some Remington, which I have a lot of. Target was set at 100 yards.
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  • I might add I fired four five shot groups and some were worse but this was pretty much the average.



  • Bad brass is bad brass. I'll submit that there's nothing you'll be able to "do" to the general dynamics brass to make it accurate. If you load it again, and it still performs that way... toss it in the trash can. You might be able to get it "acceptable" if you have loose definitions of precision and accuracy. Though it will never shoot like good brass will. If you're getting those kinds of results with remington... I'd be interested in seeing what that rifle would do with lapua.

    I remember when "lake city" .223 brass as well as "Lake City Long Range" 308 brass was all the rage. I got talked into trying it. Nothing but a mistake. While it may be dimensionally similar to lapua, it's certainly not lapua. Nothing I did would every produce anywhere near what I was looking for. Despite the internet being slammed full of people claiming it was sent from heaven on the wings of angels. I later found out that almost all of those people fired their rifles about 3 times a year.

    Eventually you'll get tired of this and going forward you'll just buy the best brass available for a cartridge by default.



  • I put some new eyes on the 513 today. I pulled the Nikon Monarch off of my .243 and set it on for a test drive. It zeroed real quick after a bore sight and the 1/8 adjustment is nice as opposed to 1/4 that the SS scope had. I actually shot the push pin out of my zero target (paper plate) at fifty yards. I said that's good enough and shot a challenge target. The tan paper is nice, thanks Greg for the link by the way. I shot another challenge with my throw down 17 HMR and didn't do too hot.
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  • @orkan
    When I loaded this stuff the necks were so rough or corroded I had to start all over. I couldn't seat a bullet without crushing the brass. I dumped the powder and brushed the necks and resized again. The rounds seemed to be concentric however I do use a Hornady tool that has lots of play, I know there is better ones out there. I actually had better groups with Tac at 24.5 grains with full length sized Remington brass I just happened to have these neck sized only loads on hand. Book lists 24.5 grains at max but the primers don't show anything being close to pressured up. You kind of are busting my bubble in reference to the Lake City brass. I have a pretty good portion of .308 that was supposedly only fired in bolt or semi auto rifles processed and ready to load. I have a Mauser 308 I put together years back that shows some potential and I want to start shooting it something besides pigs and deer. Bad thing about it the Sendero barrel I had threaded for it is a 12 twist. I haven't had much luck over 155 grains. Shoots 150's ok.



  • Brass can measure out perfectly, and still not shoot well. The core material used to manufacture it has quite a lot of bearing on the final result. That core material can turn into something entirely different in the end, as a function of the processes used to draw it and shape it.

    Some companies have this process all figured out. Others are just muddling around in the weeds making money off quantity government contracts.



  • @orkan
    And then it is kind of like a beer can, use it once and recycle it. I see where you are coming from. I think General Dynamics is a Canadian ordinance maker. Someone once filmed a round being fired in a chamber made of clear acrylic resin to illustrate how the brass flowed in the chamber. I wish I could remember where I saw that. Super slow motion too.



  • Back in 2005 I believe I had two Mauser actions barrelled with Remington 260 Midway Barrels. One was a bull barrel for a friend of mine as a birthday present and the other was a lighter weight contour for a basic hunting rig. I did a little work on them mostly stock fitting and and some polishing before bluing. I might have drilled and tapped the receivers for scope mounts I don't remember. Anyway, I loaded all the ammo for my friends rifle up until two years ago when he was killed in a tractor accident. I grabbed a load using BLC-2 out of a manual with 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and never changed a thing and he came back every other year for two to three twenty round boxes and returned the brass. One year I loaded him one hundred and didn't see him for a while. I don't know how many animals he killed with it but he never complained so I figured all was good. I have the lighter barrelled rifle and after thirteen years I decided it's time to shoot it again. I found a target with a three shot group I suppose I shot using 35.0 grains of Varget and 120 grain Nosler BT's. It looked promising so I loaded a fifteen rounds starting at 36 grains of Varget working up to 37 grains. Book says 40 is max. I bought a box of Hornady 130 Gr. ELD Match yesterday for comparison and took everything to the range for a try. First shot with the factory load went four inches high and about an inch and a half left. When I got home yesterday I found the stock has warped putting some pressure on the right side of the barrel however slightly. The barrel is free floated except where it's hitting now and I will fix that. Not trying to make excuses but I had about the crappiest set up with bags and I couldn't get the bipod on it so I'm hoping this isn't a real representation of what I can do with some load work and better optics. Wind was steady sixteen gusting to about twenty and variable depending on the showers spitting rain everywhere yesterday. I got tired of messing with the scope and shot three of the factory for a group and moved on to my handloads. The handloads are messy, real messy so It's time to get started and I have some brass to work with. The 130 grain ELD delivered the best groups so that might be a good starting point for projectiles and I don't have a single one.
    98 Mauser / Midway .260 Remington Barrel
    Simmons Aetec 2.5x10 In Redfield Base And Rings
    Military Stock Recontoured And Barrel Floated
    Bold Adjustable Trigger 4#
    Bolt Handle And Machine Work Performed By Refugio Industries Refugio Texas
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  • Jumped on my .260 today for a little maintenance. Ran some Hoppes copper solvent through the barrel since I don't believe I have cleaned it ever. Maybe when it was back from the machine shop thirteen years ago. I kept seeing copper so I used an ammonia free treatment that seemed to get it out, at least I can't see any streaks. I pulled the action from the stock and sanded the barrel channel and while it was out reset the trigger to 2.5#. Got the bipod attached securely but it's crooked so I've got to jack one leg up a bit. Don't know what's up with that. I did a tight patch barrel twist procedure and I measure nine inches for a turn, wish it was a little faster but I'm stuck with it. Got four projectile choices, 130 Berger's AR Hybrid OTM Tacticals, Hornady 140 grain A Max and 120 A Max and the 120 Ballistic tips. I do have some 95 grain V Max for later. Fuel is going to be H4831SC this time, stay tuned.


 

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