Dirty barrel experiments.

  • @kanemiker

    Looks like you bring a lot of knowledge to the table glad you joined up.

    I’m currently testing HBN coatings to see if I can eliminate the bonding between bullets and brass that’s been loaded for extended periods of time. One of the things I’ve noticed while using this coating is the lack of fouling in the barrel. I usually clean every 200ish rounds, last time I cleaned it was basically no fouling in the barrel to remove. If I remember right three patches is all I used, afterwards I checked it with a bore scope and it was spot less. After cleaning it took 2 rounds to settle back down and the velocity to stabilize. I’m thinking this coating could greatly increase the round count between cleanings. Another thing to note was the muzzle was still clean after 200 rounds of suppressed fire which it’s usually caked on thick requiring several soakings to remove.

    It’s an ongoing test but at this point is showing real promise.

  • @bull81 I assume that the coating is just taking place of carbon in the barrel

  • @kanemiker
    I coat the bullets and treat the barrel. To treat the barrel the HBN is suspended in 99% alcohol then applied to the barrel with a cleaning patch once the alcohol evaporates a clean dry patch is run down the barrel to remove any excess. So it’s definitely in the barrel but doesn’t seem to build up with each firing. I’m about 500 rounds into it with testing at this point.

  • @bull81 I have no experience with treating barrels or coated bullets it just doesn't make sense with the amount of shooting that that I do and the amount of barrels that I go through in a year. I expect that it somehow all works but everyone is working from a different situation and need.

  • Just so everyone knows, Mike is the one that gave me the idea to not be cleaning.

    My hope is that this thread will turn into a "proof positive" regarding this theory. I'm less skeptical about it now than I was last year. Though real data, from folks that can consistently shoot little knots, is the only thing that will prove it.

    It's certainly proven to be sub-moa capable. Maybe even 1/2moa capable. I'm not settled on if it's 1/3 - 1/4 moa capable however. Many more rounds need sent and recorded.

  • @kanemiker
    Oh I completely understand and wasn’t trying to argue a point in either direction. Sorry if I came across that way. I was just stating what I had experienced dealing with the coating and it’s affects on cleaning. Basically in some ways it’s turned into my own version of a dirty barrel experiment by accident.

  • 50 more rounds today. Couple of 10-shot groups and the rest are 5 shots at the end of the 50rnds. One group was really tiny for 3 shots. Then one jumped out the top. lol Last one went right in there.

    832rnds since cleaned - 31gr H4350 behind 107SMK

  • @kanemiker

    Great info. After you shoot your initial 50 “break in” loads, do you clean?

  • 879rnds since cleaned

    Two 5-shot groups @ 100yds.


  • Not even so much as a bore snake run through?

  • @martino1 said in Dirty barrel experiments.:

    Not even so much as a bore snake run through?

    Nothing. Nothing but bullets has gone down this bore for 909 rounds now. I fired 30 more rounds just a while ago.

  • I just remember reading about how stubborn the carbon rings were to get out sometimes after a long run of rounds.BTW is this a Benchmark barrel that is doing this?

  • @pizfiz no it is a normal breakin routine some last 10 some last up to 50 I go through this until I see no copper fouling and once it is gone I don't clean it.

  • Got another batch of rounds on this rifle. Shot 134 rounds over the weekend, shot 50 more today. Including 30rnds back to back, quickly. 1093rnds since last cleaned. This barrel has 2013rnds on it now. Definitely more shots coming out than I've seen previously. Barrel might be on its way. It will still put together a good group... but it doesn't seem as easy.


  • @orkan
    Wouldn’t just over 2k rounds be a pretty low round count for a 6 br?

  • @bull81 said in Dirty barrel experiments.:

    Wouldn’t just over 2k rounds be a pretty low round count for a 6 br?

    It can be. ... but there's a lot of guys that will rip them off after 1500rnds. This barrel wasn't that good to begin with. Just hasn't been many groups in the zero's with it. It's always been a solid 1/3moa performer... but that's starting to open up as well with more flyers. As you can see, it CAN produce some nice groups. Though the number of times 1 or 2 shots come out of the group is steadily increasing. A bit more scatter to things.

  • If you decide to pull it, I’d be interested to see what it would do if you cleaned it down to bare metal again and ran a few rounds of the original load through it to see what it would do before pulling it off and replacing it.

  • @bull81 said in Dirty barrel experiments.:

    If you decide to pull it, I’d be interested to see what it would do if you cleaned it down to bare metal again and ran a few rounds of the original load through it to see what it would do before pulling it off and replacing it.

    I plan on doing that. Thought it would go without saying. :)

  • @orkan
    I figured you would, but I wouldn’t be able to ask after the fact. Like my dad always says you can’t complain if you never speak up.

  • I need to load up another batch of 6BR for some prairie dog blasting... so I decided to use up the remaining 95gr VLD's I had on the shelf. These friggin bullets are so ridiculously seating depth sensitive. Worst I've ever worked with by far.

    Here's where I started:

    Here's where I ended up:

    Good enough for some pdog zapping. 1244rnds since cleaned.

  • 1105rnds since cleaned. A page full of 5-shot groups from my 6 Dasher. I shot the top two rows, @brittel shot the bottom two rows. He injured his trigger finger, so he was doing it Tom Berenger style. hehe.


  • @orkan 1244rnds to 1105rnds? Are you tracking 2 separate rifles or type error? Just wondering, not being a dink. I've stopped cleaning my rifles and they are tracking right along where you and @kanemiker indicate certain changes will occur. I had to drop .4gr powder with my 300 wsm cause pressure was climbing and groups started opening up right at 200rnds. I actually had to increase powder charge .3gr with my 308 at 250-270rnds to get back in the node, but I was only loading 43.2 gr charge to begin with. The 300wsm fouls a lot quicker than the 308 so it made sense that I would see the spikes in velocity and pressure sooner.
    Another question, are you guys cleaning the crown regularly or leaving it fouled as well? I think a lot of the buildup on my crown is due to the muzzle brake. I was wiping it off and scrubbing with a tooth brush, but now am leaving it. If my 300wsm opens up again, I'm going to scrub the crown clean to see if groups shrink before revisiting load development.

  • @donnie one is a 6BR & the other 6 Dasher

  • @gash that's what I missed. Thanks.

  • @donnie said in Dirty barrel experiments.:

    Another question, are you guys cleaning the crown regularly or leaving it fouled as well?

    Not cleaning crown. I shoot suppressed so the crown is absolutely filthy. No ill effect experienced.

  • Ok, I am at 1070 rds down range thru the REM700.308(22) I brought to the class back in May. I have not cleaned it yet. As part of the "dirty" experiment, it is about time to clean it and see if the groups tighten up? I'm thinking, "no" because the groups seem to be getting tighter as the months go by and the primary variable ( MOI) operates within tighter tolerances. But it does seem like a proper "experiment" would include at least one cleaning sometime before the barrel dies?

  • I clean my barrels usually after every match or around the 200 round mark. I clean using the method @orkan suggest with CLR and brushes. I’ve never had an issue with carbon build up using this method until now. My 6br had hard carbon built up horribly for the first 2 inches of the barrel. No amount of scrubbing and soaking would even knock a dent in it. I was unaware of the carbon and had to switch bullet lots as well as powder lots and contributed the poor accuracy and need to rework a load up to the bullets and powder but was never able to get it back to shooting as well as it had previously. The carbon build up had a lot of copper imbedded in it so I am pretty sure it was damaging the bullets causing accuracy issues. I ordered some Iosso Bore Paste and was able to remove the build up last night and hopefully accuracy will return to what it was before. The only difference between my cleaning procedure on the 6br from my other rifles is I wasn’t using VFG pellets with it cause either they weren’t in stock or I’d forget to order them with other orders. I did get some pellets with the Iosso so I’ll be using them from this point forward in the BR as well.
    Couple questions

    1. why did this particular rifle develop an issue when cleaned regularly using the same procedure as my others?
    2. with the ones of you not cleaning do you see copper imbedded in the carbon
    3. are you able to get the same level of accuracy after the carbon develops as you had previously.

    This 6br is bar far the most accurate rifle I’ve had and I’ve had some good ones. It routinely shoots in the mid .1’s with several low 0’s from a bipod and rear squeeze bag. It shot a 20 round group at 1000 that was 6.9 inches 19 of which came in at around 4 inches. I hope now that the carbon has been removed that level of accuracy returns.

  • Were you using wipeout patchout with the clr as I specify? Strange that you'd have copper buildup if you were using CLR first, and then finishing up with wipe out.

  • @orkan
    No I don’t use whipeout I use KG 1. CLR is the first thing I use, and this is the only rifle that I’ve had this happen too. I just finished shooting it now that the carbon is gone and the accuracy has returned after the first two fouling shots. I’ll pick up some whipeout though to try out and see how it does

    First five

    Next five

  • @bull81 Nice to see it is working. Just curious to make of barrel.

  • @tpk936
    26 in bartlien heavy Palma


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