• Greg please take a look at my 22 creedmoor targets shot today at 100 yards with no suppressor. I think the suppressor was the cause of poor results. Let me know your thoughts but 38.5 looks good to me. These are 5 shot groups.

    this is a 200 yard 6br group with a new fuzion action 1-8 twist hart barrel in a masterpiece chassis. 107 smk, 30 gr varget, 450 cci primers 1.805 ogive. There is also a group on above target with 107 same load.

  • @tpk936 said:

    but 38.5 looks good to me.

    I would explore lower as well. If you notice, 38.6 and .7 are crawling their way down the target. That would indicate 38.5 right on the end of a node.

  • @orkan Will do. I had already loaded these. I annealed sized and tumbled 50 pieces last night . I plan on starting at 37.5 and going back to 38.5. I should have shot it long ago without the suppressor to see. I wasted some time here but learned some things along the way. Will update you next time I make it to range. Thanks

  • What suppressor were you using?

  • @dddoo7 an older one made by Wells a small company in PA. It is a .308 can and has in excess of 7500 rounds through it. I am going to clean it and see what happens.

  • I called Dave Wells today and was talking to him about the accuracy issue. He said you should not have to clean the suppressor. He then said ship it back to me and let me go through it to make sure there are no issues. I packaged up and it is being shipped. I was surprised he offered to look at it after owning it for 4 plus years. Will update once I get the report back.

  • A man that stands behind his products, nice in this day and age!

  • Did a little shooting today. Had to re zero a couple rifles and fine tune my Fuzion action 6br.
    Fuzion action 6br in masterpiece chassis with a 26 inch 8 twist Hart barrel. It is a sweet shooting gun.
    10 shoots at 200 yards. One got away from me right. Bad timing on the wind by me. I am really liking this 6br. It is shooting 107 smk's nicely.
    re zeroed 300wsm then took 3 shots at 200. Also re zeroed my wife's 14 twist 6br varmit gun.Then shot 2 at 200 for the 8. Off a couple clicks changed from moa to mil scope.

  • @tpk936 update on suppressor. Dave said the core had some strikes to it and it needs to be re-cored. I am opting to re-core for $200. Will be a brand new suppressor. Could be worse...Now I just need to get to the range, is has been a couple weeks.

  • @tpk936

    $200 is not bad at all. Have you seen Thunder Beast's recore prices? I bet that will tighten up the groups.

  • Finally made it to the range. I had a 22 creedmoor, 6br and 40x 22lr. Greg I will need your thoughts on 22 creedmoor. The load is 38.5 with Sierra 80 gr SMK. 1 group of 5 at 100 then a group of 5 at 400. First time I shot the 22 creed at 400 yards. Started at 1.2 mils then needed a click up to 1.3. I also held left after 2nd shot. shots 3-5 I like.
    This is 6br at 100 yards 3 shot groups. The 22 creed is 5 shots.
    400 yards with 6br was 10 shots. First 2 high came down a click. I shot 5 with 107 smk and 5 with Barts 105. lost 2 to the right my fault due to not checking cant level. The Fuzion action is a dream.
    some very poor 100 yard 22lr targets. Was using cheap Geco ammo.
    All in all a very good day at the range. It has been a while but reading through ddd07 rrt with commentary from Greg helped me focus on NPA and getting set up properly. I am hoping to return to range next week. I need to load up some 22 creed with the same load and continue practicing proper technique.

  • Pay special attention to your trigger work. Your groups seem to have some horizontal dispersion to them with both 22CM and 6BR. Make sure that trigger is being pressed directly to the rear. If it's not that, then perhaps more attention to the rear bag to ensure the rifle is not settling left or right and tracking true.

  • @orkan I did notice my hand dropping in the rear like in class but it was after a shot. I do need to pay closer attention to this and keep my hand more level. I will write this down and put in ammo box to remind me. Thank You

  • what a difference a week makes. The wind was swirling today and it proved to be challenging. I was concentrating on my trigger pull, rear bag and follow through.
    Here is my 400 yard target 10 shots in the middle are with 6br . 5 with 107smk and 5 with 105 Barts. The oops was me pulling the trigger out of sequence with my breathing. The bottom 3 are 22 creedmoor 80 gr smk with 38.5 gr H4350.
    This is 3 shots at 100 yards with 22 creed using 80gr Bergers with 42.4gr H4350. I need to load up some more of these for further testing.
    This is 6br at 100 yards. Bottom group is on clean barrel with the first shot cold bore low. The group on top was my last 3 shots of the day.

  • I finally was able to make it to the range. Had the 6br 1-8 twist along with the DT 6.5 Creedmoor and of course the 40X.
    This was some load development with 6.5 using Lapua brass. Started at 41.1 , 41.3 , 41.6, 41.9. 41.3 looks pretty good will have to load some more and see how it does down range.
    6 br at 100 yards. The 107smk seem to be doing better at the 100 yard mark versus the 105 Barts. The vertical group was shot with a very hot barrel and very poor focus.
    The 105 Barts seem to do better at 400 yards then the 107smk. I rattled 8 then came up a click to try and hit the X. Second shot was close.
    I also shot 200 rounds of 22 with the 40X at 100 yards did not take pic.
    I need to get to the range more often way too long since my last trip.

  • Today may have been my break through day with the 22 creedmoor with virgin brass. Greg I would like to hear your thoughts if you get a chance.
    39.8 and 40.2. This is as good as I have done with loads. Greg where do you think I should test more at.
    This is my 14 twist 6br.
    The first shot was high on the right and then I looked at scope. Had a couple clicks on, put back to zero along with wind adjustment. Then proceeded to shot a better result. Should have quit at 5 on my last group bottom right but I had 2 pills left. Last shot was the low one. Bottom row of dots are all 3 shots except the last one.
    300 wsm rezero.
    Acouple more DT 6.5 creedmoor. Loadedup a few more rounds at 41.3gr of H4350 in Lapua brass. Adjusted scope for second 3. Switching between 22 creed and 6.5 creed at the range. I am getting pretty quick at the barrel swap. Roughly a 1 mil difference between the 2.

  • Man...that 6.5 CM barrel shoots!

  • I just can't see how the 22cm goes from tiny clusters to 1 moa with a six tenths of a grain of powder difference. ... I've never seen that. Not sure what to make of it.

  • @orkan I do not think it is me but one can never be sure. I have not been able to get any consistency. I will load more around the 39.8 to 40.2 starting at 39.7 and see what happens. This has been my challenge. Maybe I should send to you and let you do some load development.

  • @dddoo7 I am digging the 6.5...

  • @tpk936 You can if you like. I'd prefer the complete rifle... that way if there's something up with it equipment wise, I can diagnose that as well. We are class-3, so you can send the suppressor as well, as it's for service... not transfer. It's not awesome trying to figure out something like this without the entire system.

    Same goes, I'd want your brass and bullets as well. Powder and primers too if you feel like paying hazmat. Otherwise we can just see what we see.

  • @orkan I quit using a suppressor a while ago to eliminate that issue. Plus the can I was using took a baffle strike and is being re cored. I will try a couple more loads around the 39.8 and if no consistency I will send out the rifle with once fired brass ready to be loaded with bullets. I would prefer not to pay hazmat but if necessary will do. This is not the first time I have struggled with a load and maybe it will turn out to be a very good learning experience. Last time I was so frustrated I replaced the barrel and action and it now shoots little holes, the Fuzion 6br. I appreciate your help.

  • Range trip 10/22. The conditions where a swirling breeze making things a little more difficult. I tried to have patience and time the wind.
    Here is some more 22 creed and I continue to struggle. Below that is my new hunting rifle I had a 6.5 creed built to hunt with. Nice lite rifle. Just started some load work.
    One of my favorite guns, my 6br 14 twist makes me feel good at 100 yards. 3 shots at each dot. I only had 15 round left. Now I can reload the 100 pieces of empty brass.
    Put a different scope on my 300 wsm and zeroed then took 4. I should have stopped at 3. Next to it is some 22lr with my 40X using Geco ammo. 25 shots. 100 yards
    40X at 100 yards using Geco ammo. 25 shots at each. The breeze was playing with me. I look at this then I thought about the post on another site of 8 of 10 hits on a golf ball at 200 yards I need to go watch that BS.

    I have 454 rounds through that 22 creed and I still cannot get this thing to shoot. I am going to need some help here Greg. I have tried but must be something I am doing wrong.

  • The last four groups on the 22 Creedmoor doesn't look to bad. Maybe some seating adjustments and go from there.

  • @tpk936 said:

    I am going to need some help here Greg.

    Wrap it all up and send it here. Preferably before 4ft of snow is in my yard. ;)

  • @orkan I annealed and sized once fired brass last night. I need to tumble hopefully tonight. Then I will pack it up and send your way. Rifle, Brass, Bullets. 4ft of snow could happen soon in your area. Thank You.

  • Brass is tumbled and trimmed. I will get this all packaged up tonight and will UPS to you. I would say you will have it by Tuesday or Wed the latest. I will send 2 day. Thank You for the help and I am looking forward to the information.

  • We'll be on the lookout.

  • Took your rifle out of the box, screwed on a thunderbeast suppressor.


    Primed 5 of your cases. Noticed dents on several. This is indicative of too much lube on the shoulders. They all had kind of an odd shoulder shape with a secondary step toward the body/shoulder junction and a harsh neck turn transition at the shoulder/neck junction. During bullet seating there was noticeably different seating pressure between rounds, which was confirmed and evidenced by a seating depth variation ES of around 12 thousandths among the 5 rounds I loaded with 41gr of varget.


    Snowy, 28 degrees, and blowing about 20mph today so I elected to shoot off the bench inside. Here are the first five shots.


    Malformed brass and the inconsistent seating pressure I felt... I couldn't expect much better than this. Yet still, with all those known inconsistencies and everything I saw coming into this... shooting from inside on a cold day off a bench... that's one small cluster.

  • r7dA8q8h.jpg

    5 shots - 41.5gr H4350. Three through the same hole and then two came out, one low, one right. I'll need to get outside and lay down... as this mirage is killin me. In my opinion this thing is a laser.

    I'll get bundled up and lay down here at some point.

  • NKt3tXch.jpg

    Went out and laid down for 2 groups. 5 shots each... 100yds. 41gr H4350 @ 2.585 OAL.

    Same story for each group. Three in one hole, two out. I can easily attribute this to the seating pressure variations I'm feeling when seating bullets. This brass is in fairly rough shape with the dents and such.

    So, onto the solution portion of this testing. I think you'd benefit from re-evaluating how you're turning/sizing. I don't know what has been done to this brass or how many times... but it's clear to me the barrel shoots. I'm quite positive if I sized these fired pieces and loaded them again I'd end up with sub-1/4moa once I got the load tuned.

    It's possible you could have a hosed up batch of H4350. I'd need all the rest of your components as well as your dies to really hammer this out.

  • As per our call @tpk936 here's what you need:

  • @orkan Thanks for the help and conversation. Will get items ordered then clean reset dies and try again.

  • Happy to help. :)

  • Today at the range was swirling winds gusting to 12mph. I had a 308 converted to 6.5 afyer burning up the barrel. I can see why the 6.5 is becoming a favorite. I did some load work using 140 & 142 SMK. IMR4350 powder, Hornady brass and fed primers.
    The 142 with 40.5 gr of powder did very nice. The 140 need some more work.
    I have a bunch of 168 SMK lying around so started playing with them in my 300wsm. 62.3gr of IMR4350 looks pretty good 5 shots. I also have some 185 bergers that did not work in my 308 but with 60.5 grains ofIMR4350 thaty shoot pretty good in the 300wsm. 4 shots.
    40X at 50 yards cheap geco ammo.

  • I made it to the range today. The temp was 38 with the wind blowing across at 6 to 10 mph. The mirage was awful and my hands where not working well in the cold.
    Some 40X at 50 yards 5 shots each dot. Not very good. Still using cheap Geco ammo. Almost out then I will clean and switch to some wolf MT
    Still working some 6.5 creed with IMR4350 and SMK 140 & 142. The bottomrow is 22 creed 5 shots with old brass I formed and steel pin tumbled same load as alpha brass target.
    The interesting part on this target is 5 shots with 1 fired brass that was steel pin tumbled and the 2 shots with new brass. A big shift in poi.
    This is the 22 creed with new alpha brass, 41gr H4350, Federal 210 primers, 80 gr Berger VLD Target bullets loaded to overall length of 2.585. Greg what primers are you using? This shows me that the brass was my issue. I will start some load work around 39.8 and work my way up.

    My rice tumbler showed up but would not work. I have another on the way and will not be cleaning any brass till it arrives. After my conversation with Greg I can really feel a difference in how a bullet seats that was steel pin tumbled brass.

  • @tpk936 said:

    Greg what primers are you using?


  • @tpk936 I don't remember, have you tested H1000 at all? That would be something else you could try.

  • @orkan I have not tried H1000. Now that I have been playing with the prometheus and seeing how it throws the exact same charge and seeing how the Alpha brass has arrived( by the way copper is sold out of 22 creed brass) I am ready to start all over. I saw what you did and I see the potential. I should have a lot more confidence in the set up which will help. Give me a couple weeks and I will get this thing working. I feel good about where I am in the process. Sometimes confidence in the system alone can make a difference.

  • 2lf8jc.jpg

  • @tpk936 said:

    ( by the way copper is sold out of 22 creed brass)

    I got 100 before they sold out. I had a feeling they might be hard to come by so I grabbed some for a future barrel.

  • It has been a month since I have made it out to the range. I went out today and it was 37 light breeze. I brought out a 6.5 creed and the 22 creed.
    top row is 22 creed with 41.3 H4350 ,cci primer , oal 2.585. New alpha brass. I still need some work here. The 6.5 works when I do my part. A lot of mirage with the cold weather.
    6.5 creed at 200 yards with 142 SMK. My X sticker fell off and so did I.
    6.5 Creed I was shooting today.
    I do not like the cold. Especially my hands. I have the day off tomorrow and I plan on spending some time at the range tomorrow.

  • @tpk936 How do you like that grip on that RED rifle?

  • @mamalukino I really like the grip. I have 3 MPA chassis set ups all with that grip. I like the thumb rest part and how it holds your trigger finger. For me it is very comfortable.

  • I made it to the range today but had a couple issues so time was cut short. My 6br had a couple failed fires using cci450 primers first time this happened. One the bullet did pop out and powder everywhere.
    Lessons from today. I loaded the last 11 new pieces of 22 creed brass. I actually used my 6.5 forester creed die to load wanted to experiment. I then separated by run out. I saw a lot of run out on 7 and had 4 that where pretty good. That is the second group 4 really good one wanderer. I need to anneal, size, tumble then load some and check run out on once fired brass. I will use the whidden 22 creed die and my 6.5 to compare. It just seems bullets are not seating straight.
    The next lesson was the 6.5 likes a few shots to warm up once it does it gets tighter.
    Then my trusty .308. It has been a while since I shot my .308. I was reminded why I like my 308 so much. I need to start checking turrets before I shoot. The first shot was a little high oops..
    I need to get back to my once a week trips to the range hopefully the weather will cooperate.

  • ocMgtY8.jpg
    Hopefully Sat. Weather looks good.

  • I went to the range today but not for long. The temp was 26 with wind blowing NW by NNW at 18 - 35 mph. Needless to say with a real feel temp at 10 it was to cold. The reason I went was because I received my 22 creedmoor die back from Whidden. I will say it is not the same die. After 658 rounds of frustration sending the gun to Greg and all of his assistance I have found satisfaction with the 22 creedmoor.
    Top row all the way to the right. My hands with gloves caused 1 to get away but the other 4 hallelujah. Look at the four groups with old die and look at group with new die. I know it is only 5 shots but now I can work up a load. The 2 rows below where with first loads I did with prometheus for this gun versus chargemaster. Started with a clean barrel. A couple of loose shots but I am very satisfied with today's results with the conditions today. Thank You Greg for all the help with the 22 Creedmoor.

  • Glad you got it sorted!

    Really sucks that a guy can't count on one of the better die companies out there.

    There is a severe lack of high end product you can count on in the die market.

  • @orkan I hear you, but at least he fixed the issue. It was a real and valuable learning experience. Thank You for the help.

  • One of the reasons I buy higher end equipment is so that there is less of a variable regarding equipment when a rifle is not shooting satisfactory. I am glad you figured it out...but really frustrating that it was the fault of a $300+ die set. For that money they should be perfect every time.