Advice on whether or not to purchase a new rimfire



  • Having read, re-read and trying my best to put into practice everything I have learned from Orkan's guides. When I shoot the rimfire challenge target they now end up like the one I posted below. I know I have more the learn and I have only been trying at this target for a short while, I can't help wonder if I have reached the mechanical limitations of my rifle. I ordered up a few boxes of Lapua Center X to try and see if it makes a difference, but I don't expect much.

    GtmbxR6.jpg

    Rifle: Savage MKII .22LR.

    Optic: US Optics MR-10 JNG MIL reticle

    Scope rings Seeking Precision

    Scope base. EGW 20 moa glass bed to action.

    Stock pack: Triad tactical

    Bolt: Polished and coated in Cerakote micro slick. Precision Armament mini bolt knob. Firing pin de-burred and tuned to allow dry firing without peening the breech face. Also tuned to flat and positive rim impact. Also tuned to smooth out the pop pop of the firing pin cocking piece. Slightly polished and de-burred the bottle edge of the bolt face where the bevel is to prevent scratching the rounds when cycling the bolt.

    Trigger: Removed accu-trigger blade. Set to 3lbs so it is consistent with my center fires. Shimmed to remove side to side slop. Stoned and polished sear for minimal creep. Still has a pinch, but its barely noticeable.

    Action: Re-tapped the mounting posts for 1/4X28 screws. Made custom mounting screws. Welded the mag well together and beveled the inlet.

    Stock: Boyds Tacticool. DIP bottom metal with all screws replaced with 1/4X28 screws. Added pillars for the action and threaded brass inserts for the bottom metal screws. Added JB Weld reinforcement to fill the voids and strengthen the stock around the action inlet. Glass bedded the action and bottom metal. Solid torque to 40 inch pounds. Added a one inch piece of wood to lengthen the grip and reshaped to blend in. Installed Grove Tech flush cups and a Atlas picatinny rail for the bi pod.

    There is probably a few tweaks here and there I forgot but that's the bulk of it.

    Now for the reason to add all of this. Those of you with more experience than me, am I getting the best this rifle can do and now it's time to step up to better equipment? I'm trying to decide how much more practical accuracy a more expensive rifle will gain me. I did everything myself to the Savage so I only have about $450.00 invested minus optics and it has been a good learning experience. My intended direction is to this shoot targets like this rimfire challenge, fundamentals trainer for my center fires, and to try and get in on something like the Eley Pratical Rimfire Challenge. Maybe some NRA metallic silhouette shooting for fun.

    Rifles I'm contemplating, CZ 455 with Mr, Fly two stage trigger and a custom fitted barrel blank or the Anschutz 1416 AV. I know the CZ when it's all said and done I will be at almost the same cost as the Anschutz, but the barrel change system is appealing. Any of these will be fitted to a MDT LSS rimfire chassis to better mimic my center fires. What's everyone's opinion?

    Thanks again, David



  • Frankly, I'm infinitely surprised your MKII does even that well.

    I think you're probably right in your opinion that the rifle just isn't going to shoot much better. That would be my opinion as well, as long as the top target is representative of your best work as a shooter, good conditions, and properly selected ammo.

    Now here's the part where I'm going to make you sad.

    To get significantly better than what you've shown there, you're going to need a full custom, a 40X, an Anschutz 54 MATCH action rifle, or something in that vein. What I'm saying here is, the 40X is the most attainable "good shooting" 22lr there is. You might need to replace the barrel, depending on which one you get... but TS Customs can do that easy enough.

    CZ's, just avoid them. You MIGHT get one shooting real good, but the chances are less than 30%.

    I went through 3 Anschutz rifles. Two 64MPR's and a full custom evelio mcdonald built 1712 on a 54 action. All of them sucked. A few months ago I purchased an Anschutz 54.18MS, 54.18MSL, and a 54.18MSR. ALL of them will shoot right with my 40X's most of the time... but good luck finding one. The MS is a right hand single shot, which can probably be found. The MSL is a left hand single shot, which is very rare. The MSR is a right hand repeater and probably can be found with a thumbhole stock, but the one I have is with the original silhouette stock and you'll have a better chance of finding a moon rock than finding one of those for sale. It took me the better part of 6 years to find one.

    Otherwise it's just a matter of buying a bunch of rifles and shooting them A LOT. You would not believe how much 22lr I shoot. ;)



  • Sad, nope, good information and kind of what I expected. I would love a 40x, but that's out of my price range right now. Maybe it's time to reevaluate some life priorities.....Christmas is not that far off. 😉

    Any thoughts then for a repeating action to build on?

    David



  • That's a tough question. I spent a lot of money and went through a lot of rifles trying to get happy with a repeater and couldn't do it until we developed a 40X repeater conversion.



  • The Lithgow is too new to really know much about.

    I have 4 CZ 452 myself and they are 1 MOA on a good day with Center X.
    My 452 Varmint will do better with the premium ammo but it isn't consistently below 1/2 MOA.
    There is just a huge variance with CZ.

    What you seek is going to be $1200 and up in budget.
    At least a 40X Is holding its value and appreciating slowly.



  • No idea the cost but I'm sure it's my first born child, anyone seen these?
    http://www.viperactions.com/

    Stiller Precision Viper 2500XS rimfire.

    Edit: Just found the price list. $1350.00. Uses Savage magazines and Remington 700 triggers and stocks. Interesting......very interesting....



  • The only thing I can add is to save your pennies and get a really good rimfire that Orkan suggests. I shot a Savage MKII for almost a decade and for what I was using it for, it was a good rifle. It was great for shooting vermin on the property and just plinking around. Once I moved to paper, I quickly became frustrated... I couldn't tell if the problems I was seeing was me or the gun. Orkan set out to find a good rimfire for me, but being that I'm a lefty it made the task very hard. I'm not sure how long he'd been searching, but earlier this year he surprised me with a LH Anschutz 54 MS (https://forums.gunhive.com/topic/1233/thanks-orkan-for-the-surprise). It was well worth the wait and all the frustration I had with my Savage. My Savage allowed me to get some fundamentals down and become comfortable shooting. My Annie has allowed me to hone my shooting and now I'm actually able to know for sure when I'm messing up or if it's the ammo.

    Good luck in your search!

    "A woman trying to function like a man is as ridiculous as a man trying to be like a woman. A unisex society is a senseless society—a society dangerously out of order. " - DP

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  • @drandi said:

    No idea the cost but I'm sure it's my first born child, anyone seen these?
    http://www.viperactions.com/

    Stiller Precision Viper 2500XS rimfire.

    Edit: Just found the price list. $1350.00. Uses Savage magazines and Remington 700 triggers and stocks. Interesting......very interesting....

    I would avoid that thing like the plague. One guy on snipershide did a build on one, and it was MONTHS of feeding, extraction, and all manner of other issues if memory serves.



  • I started out with a cz455. It was in a manners stock and very soon after I put a lilja barrel, had the stock bedded, trigger kit, billet bottom metal, etc. before I knew it I had over $2k in a cz...and even after all that work it still shot like a cz.

    I now have a custom 40x. Manners stock, jewel trigger, primal rights repeater conversion, etc and could not be happier. The thing will shoot extremely consistent when I do what I should. I know with this rifle that I am the limiting factor. It is more than capable of shooting consistent sub .25" groups at 50y. I wish I had built a 40x the first go round.



  • I have 2 40X one is a repeater done by Primal Rights, This gun will have to be pried from me long after I am gone. I would consider selling the single shot 40X for what I paid for it $1850. If you want the Leupold MKIV 3.5-10x40 that is on it add another $500. I also have a benchrest 22lr I would liquidate. It is built on an ULA action and comes with 2 barrels one Hart one Shilen it is a single shot and shoots little holes also. $1500.
    By the way I almost went the Viper route and after researching and speaking with Greg I passed.



  • Think I'm going to do the same. Time to save the pennies for a 40x with a repeater conversion.

    I like to give people the benifit of the doubt until proven otherwise, but the more time I spend shooting, the more I'm starting to think a large percentage of people on some of these forums lying out their ass. Was lookin at a as factory delivered Anschutz 64 MPR for $1000.00 and the owner was showing .4" groups at 100 yards and claiming he can do it all day long. Rimfire central, Snipershide.....three quarters of the posters there show targets look like they would win the Olympics.

    Am I alone in this observation or am I missing something?



  • said:

    the more time I spend shooting, the more I'm starting to think a large percentage of people on some of these forums lying out their ass.

    You sir, have come to the right forum. You'll find that most here share your belief.

    I have 15 high end 22lr's. Not a ONE of them can boast 1/2" groups "all day long" at 100yds. For the record, a member on here that goes by @rimfire has won the SD and NE state smallbore benchrest championships... and I know for a fact that he doesn't have a 22lr that can consistently shoot 1/2" at 100yds either.



  • 99% of the Lawyers make the rest look bad.

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  • I think they just use a CZ 455 or whatever.



  • @rhyno They use the action but a different barrel.

    99% of the Lawyers make the rest look bad.

    0


  • Lots of rebarreled CZ's out there and some of them can shoot pretty good.



  • @orkan

    I sold a rebarrled cz because I wasn't happy with it. I'm convinced the action is not a beefy as it needs to be.



  • People are using Permatex High Temperature Sleeve Retainer on the slip fit and grub screw held CZ455 barrels.
    That is just a stopgap for the drop in barrels on a factory action.
    Cleaning up and squaring the action and a custom barrel with a properly fit tenon is being done by some Smiths that have a cottage industry in fixing CZ 455 issues.

    A CZ will never be a 54 Match Anschutz or Win 52 or a Remington 40X.
    A BRNO model 3 or 4 is the peak of Czech Rimfire technology.
    If you are a collector they are approaching $1k.
    A few years ago before the CZ mania they were a $500-$600 rifle.
    They are a heavy barrel BRNO 2 with a 50's era target stock and Aperture sights. They are repeaters and can use a factory single shot sled.
    Current CZ magazines are compatible.
    BRNO 4 Biathlon I picture found on the internet

    1-1602-2156.jpg

    Standard BRNO 4

    zbrojovka-brno--model-4-zkm-456-_4197.jpg

    I have some of the sights for my Ultra Lux.

    Just to round out a collection I may eventually get one.
    I would not expect Anschutz or 40X Or Suhl, or Walther KK levels of performance.
    The odd ringer in CZ actions is the Walther KK100 which used a CZ 452 action with a Walther barrel, Walther 2 stage trigger, Walther stock and Aperture sights.
    Walther had a machined block off and loading ramp to turn the 452 action into a single shot.

    I really wanted just the trigger to put on my 452 Ultra Lux for offhand.

    It's competition in the entry-level 3P market is the Anschutz 1903 based on the 64 Action with a block plate that made it a single shot as well.
    Anschutz won and the KK100 hasn't been manufactured for over a decade. NOS KK100 parts don't exist.
    Look familiar?

    78064588e595e69b23dc2d006cac4836.jpg

    A Sako is better than either the CZ or the 64 but still not top dog.
    CZ were poor farmer rodent guns or Third World Communist military training rifles. Kept in that context of use, they are decent and enjoy worldwide acceptance.

    I wouldn't have a 455 myself.
    Older is better in CZ rimfires for out of the box accuracy.
    Now they run them down the line as quickly as possible.
    The Czechs had some pride back in the 50's.
    Refused to adopt Stalin's guns and just used the Communist Block ammo standard.

    OK, rant off.



  • Sad story behind this Anschutz add.

    http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=55679

    Daughter decided not to shoot at the collegiate level.
    Probably a lost cause.
    I feel for him.
    Tragic loss of potential.

    Hopefully she is getting married to a great guy and starting a family instead of joining the SJW Resistance.

    The rifle can be saved though.

    I posted it just to show another site to check.


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