Canadian sniper gets a confirmed kill at 3450 Meters
rhyno last edited by rhyno
oilfieldjosh last edited by
This article always makes me feel warm and fuzzy....
Wondering what the altitude density was.
First shot or walked it in?
No mention in the story but maybe more information will be released.
@hypo it'll probably be a few years before we know.
Maybe we'll even get to see the video evidence some day.
Would be some good propaganda to use against the Jihadists.
Density altitude. ;)
Yeah, That's the ticket.
ragnarnar last edited by ragnarnar
Just got this from Mile High. Sorry guys, missed it by this much👌
They probably meant the previous record.
ragnarnar last edited by ragnarnar
I understand that.
I just thought it was funny that I got the email just now as the record had been broken.
I'm sure Craig Harrison regrets his book title now.
Also mile high has already changed the webpage.
Apparently the first report was wrong.
The kill was at 3540 Meters.
ragnarnar last edited by
I looked again and saw that and thought I was suddenly dyslexic
I got that email too. mile high is probably trying to unload them before people realize that it is no longer a "record holding rifle". I also found it funny that they said that once these are sold they will not get any more in stock.
rhyno last edited by orkan
Orkan posted this on another forum, and I can see that turning into a shit show real fast so I wanted to just copy and paste it here. So that a more civil discussion can take place. It's something I'll have to think about before I can respond.
"I have a question. Why does everyone care so much about this? Since when is it cool to kill people? Oh, I know... since hollywood told us it was. Right? I look hard to find free thinkers among you, but it's hard sometimes. A 6 page thread applauding and arguing about how far away someone can get killed. What a shameful display which has shown up on virtually every precision rifle forum in existence over this issue. If anything, it sure does prove my frequent comment that most shooters don't shoot for themselves. They shoot to impress people. Everyone so concerned with being trendy and cool all the time. People that have never served a moment of their lives, busy glorifying the military. Manufacturers sure do love it. No question about that.
I wonder though if any of you have stopped for a moment to question the now commonplace practice of militaries around the world bragging about their kills? Time was when something like this was classified with the highest authority. Now, everyone's looking for time in the spotlight... and all this crap on the forums feeds it.
Ridiculous, and shameful.
... and I look at the previous posts of some of the people commenting in this thread, and I can see so little experience. What qualifies any of us to weigh in on the merits of this issue? Were any of you there? I wasn't. Do any of you understand why they did what they did? I don't. ... but I don't have to. I don't know why they had to setup a shot at this distance, when there was obviously an observer closer. Though it's OK that I don't understand. I at least have the intelligence to know that I have ZERO information about this issue other than what the media has shared... and I'd trust satan himself before I trusted them.
What I do know without a doubt is that killing people isn't cool. It may be necessary sometimes, but it sure as hell isn't cool. It sure as hell isn't something that should result in multi-page threads on every rifle forum with a bunch of typer-snipers talking it up and vetting it out. Show a bit of respect. Get a bit of humility at least. Some of you commenting about this shot probably haven't hit a target at 1500yds much less 3000yds.
The only discussion that should be had regarding these events, is about why militaries are attention-seeking with kills on the battlefield. If THAT discussion is had, and the logical answers reached... maybe the guys wearing the uniforms can actually realize an improvement in their daily lives rather than continuing to be meat for a machine that can not be filled.
tpk936 last edited by
@rhyno Thanks for sharing that...IMHO well said Greg.
Indeed, very well said Greg. I think the best line is this,
What I do know without a doubt is that killing people isn't cool. It may be necessary sometimes, but it sure as hell isn't cool.
I couldn't agree more and couldn't have said it better. I hope and pray that I am never put in the position of having to point a gun at another person with the intent to shoot to save myself, my family, or others, but I also have no issues with using lethal force if necessary, but even if it's necessary, it will never be something cool, or something to be proud of, or even something to bring up.
I haven't read the comments on the other forum, and don't care to, but I can imagine the conversations there will only serve to give responsible shooters like us a bad name by painting all of us like trigger happy yahoos with no regard for the value of life.
People are so easily led.
The media and hollywood decided that snipers and war were cool, so everyone just hops on board and now every time we hear about a terrorist getting killed everyone is all happy and celebrates. That isn't how a christian behaves. That isn't how an AMERICAN is suppose to behave.
Any of you know someone that has killed someone? I've talked to lots of guys that have killed people and you can see it in their eyes. They say the eyes are the window to the soul, and I'm telling you sure as I'm sitting here that killing people has damaged their soul. It's a weight they may never unburden themselves of. No matter how justified they were, its horrific for them. Not to mention the dead guy and his family. They ALWAYS have a family... and they almost ALWAYS hate the person that killed their loved one.
This modern version of America and the view that most Americans have toward war is completely broken. Ask the hard questions. When you stand before God, is he going to understand your viewpoint, or will you feel so ashamed it would swallow you whole? If war is so fucking trendy, can someone explain why we have an epidemic of veteran suicide? Can someone explain why America is hated the world over unlike it has been in history?
Things keep getting worse. Not better. If we want things to get better, changes must be made. That means each one of us. We must evolve. Time was that I laughed and thought happy thoughts when I heard about some terrorist getting killed. Then I grew up and realized that NONE of this is good. None of it is Godly. All because people are so concerned about being trendy and popular.
Look what happens to me on those other forums every time I try to stand up for what is right. I get attacked from every angle. At least here on this forum we are free thinking people. Trying to be a good person and following the Ten Commandments can't be a bad thing. Stand up for what is right. Speak out about it. This has to start somewhere, so why not us?
tpk936 last edited by
@orkan I have a neighbor that just turned 30. He was a Marine did 3 tours combo Iraq & Afghanistan. He was shot twice and finally medically discharged for his back when there Humvee hit a roadside. He will talk with me but not many in the hood. I can tell he has demons from his time in these hell holes. I pray for that man everyday he finds peace.
War in general is a concept that I struggle with spiritually. I am thankful for our soldiers that protect us...but I would have trouble doing the job that they do. Obviously many of them have trouble with the job that they do as well especially after they get home. I also sometimes wonder whether the missions soldiers are commanded to perform are always righteous missions. I wonder if some missions are not more about politics, oil, money, or out right pride rather than defense of the nation. Soldiers are taught not to question authority...yet we live under a higher authority (God) and answer to Him...regardless of what some other authority has commanded one to do.
Having to take the life of another...even a terrorist...would be something that would haunt me for the rest of my life. Anyone who recognizes the value of even ONE lost soul will understand why I feel like I do.
ragnarnar last edited by
Regardless of your thoughts on this topic, this is another post from LRH on the subject. I'm just gonna copy and paste the post here, because it's our thread on the matter, rather than the "stupid in other forums" thread.
I quote from Varmiter71 on LRH:
"The report that I read said, that there was a video of the kill.
It also said a hornady bullet was used, but not which one. Could it be possible that he filmed it himself with a hornady bullet cam round.?"
I think he's actually serious.
@dddoo7 Daniel, I completely understand how you feel. The problem for the guys following orders is that it is hard for them to determine if it's a just war. Fighting a just war is not contrary to the Christian way of life, the biggest distinction to be made for all of us trying to live according to Christian principles is that all war is killing, but not all killing is murder. Murder is what the commandment deals with and also remember that Christ encountered soldiers as well and never once did he ever say to them to leave that profession on account of the possibility of killing someone. He even went as far as to suggest that if someone has a cloak to sell it and buy a sword, and a sword's main purpose is to strike at another, whether in defense or offense, but it's a weapon.
This is not for anyone to think that because I can reason this way that I am "ok" with taking a life, like I said, I hope and pray that I am never put in that position, and like Daniel, if it ever came to that I believe it would weight heavily on my soul the rest of my life, but at the same time I know God's grace and love for us is big enough to outweigh our own frailty.
I agree that being a soldier is not wrong in and of itself. As you said...there were soldiers in the first century who were not condemned for that.
The trouble I have is trusting our government to determine which battles are righteous and which ones should not be fought. I believe that I am individually responsible to God for my actions...even if they are at the command of a larger physical government.
Well I knew that would happen in the other thread which is why I posted it here.
I've been thinking about this all day.
Predictable responses over there.
It's pretty damn scary when someone can say "killing people shouldn't be celebrated," and you can't even get people to agree about that. America and the citizens within it have lost their way. The country has moved away from God and morality and moved toward something else.
What was created with divine providence, will be destroyed by such as we continue to move away from it. No prayer allowed in schools? Government corruption at all levels? Acceptance agenda pushed on any and all reprehensible behavior? Constant meddling in the affairs of other countries? How does it end good for us?
In the last 20 years, have we had more acts of terrorism... or less? Is what we're doing abroad solving problems, or creating them?
If God doesn't do something soon He will have to repent for what he did to Sodom and Gomorrah.
In a conversation with a good friend, I said that if things continue the way they are, where there government sanction of outright sin: gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, persecution of people of faith, etc, and I hope I don't see it in my lifetime, but I fear that the only way to correct course will be through a civil war/conflict. I hope it doesn't happen, but even free law abiding people have limits as to how much of their liberties are stripped away before they take up arms against oppression. That would be a sad day for our country and the American people. Here's to hoping God intervenes in some bloodless way, he is the only one who can do so.
It's been an interesting day today, what @orkan said this morning was like a slap to the face. Not in a bad way at all mind you.
And I've thought about it all day and probably will think on it some more, and I have to say he hit the nail on the head.
This is certainly not something that should be celebrated. However personally I'm conflicted.
I think life is one of the single most important things in the world, and I hold it in high regard, I pray that I never have to find myself in the situation where I have to take a life. I'm not even sure I could. When you have people though that disregard it in such a way that they'll blow up people, enslave them, throw them off buildings, burn them alive, behead them and all the other atrocities that groups like Daesh/ISIS/ISIL whatever they're called do, I can't say that I'm saddened by the loss.
It's sad it has to be done. But well I don't know as I said I am conflicted on it.
Anyways as the person who started the thread here I just wanted to say that.
pizfiz last edited by
"Trying to be a good person and following the Ten Commandments can't be a bad thing. Stand up for what is right. Speak out about it. This has to start somewhere, so why not us?"
This is at the heart of the matter.
Evil has zero problem with speaking out in support of many forms of perversion. It must be balanced by those of us who spread the "Good News".
I will always remain in doubt about justified taking of life. It is and will always be the ultimate grey area in morality. Even when I take down a deer, coyote or a spider for that matter, my mind and thoughts turn to my relationship with God.
I believe God is omniscient, he knows what we will do and why - before we do it. With that in mind, I believe that every life has its own purpose to serve God's design. The good, the bad, the ALL OF IT is in God's will. He only asks that we remain faithful by our own free will. Just remember, God knew EVERYTHING about you and me before we knew anything about God.
With all of that being said, and I quote Cal Norton Jr. "I like to picture Jesus in a tuxedo T-shirt because it says like, I want to be formal, but I'm here to party too"
It amazes me the sheer number of people who are without common sense.
It is nice to see that the same guys who have common sense when it comes to shooting also have common sense when it comes to morality. I am thankful to be a part of this community and am encouraged by the responses to the discussion of the taking of lives.
It is amazing to me that the same guys who have a lack of common sense when it comes to shooting also have a lack of common sense when it comes to morality. I would venture a guess that the lack of common sense spills over into other areas of their lives as well.
The Atmosphere certainly changed over there. Years ago mentioning a human target could get you banned and would always get a warning.
This is serious. These aren't toys.
Marksmanship is a Martial Skill.
We own the consequences of every trigger pull.
It should never be trivialized.
I stand by my propaganda theory as the primary reason that the story was made public.
If it is a propaganda piece, who is the intended recipient and why?
Are some experimental technologies from a few years ago now operational?
Digital rifle scope that averages images to remove mirage?
Smoothbore barrel and the laser guidance?
That could explain separate observer and weapon teams.
Those would be huge advances and complementary technology.
The technology would be further dehumanizing like drone technology.
Greater distance leads to greater detachment from the target.
Target Identification becomes more critical.
How soon do they get to indirect fire like the Artillery Corps?
oilfieldjosh last edited by
Seems like this weeks "Bullets from the Bible" could somewhat apply to this subject and the responses it received on the other site. If only it were that easy to apply.
Application is always the most difficult thing about bible study, and application for ones self is even more difficult.
It is sheer coincidence or providence that the topic aligns though as they were written before it all exploded.