Custom Seater Dies
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I was going to ask this via PM, but I thought someone else might find the info useful as well.
I have grown tired of using my Arbor presses and wilson dies...and am probably going to sell out and convert over to whidden dies. The quality of ammo the wilson dies make is good...It is just that I have to have a separate arbor press for seating and it is slower than a conventional die would be. I have a 21st century hydraulic press...but the problem is that with virgin brass I can't use the 21st century press because it requires more than 100 psi to seat the bullets. Therefore I also have to keep the K&M press on the bench for seating bullets in virgin brass.
The only thing I am loading for precision right now is the 308...so it won't be too difficult to change over to conventional dies as I only have one to buy right now. I am going to get a custom Whidden...and as you know they need three pieces of fired brass.
Is it ok to send them three of the pieces that I culled...or will there be some dimensional differences that will cause problems if they are used to make a custom seater die?
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I wouldn't send them culled brass. Shouldn't matter much, but why take the risk?
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That is what I figured. Just trying to save some brass...but not worth getting a bum die over.
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I'd send them 3 good pieces of brass that are ready to stick a bullet in - minus the primer.
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@tscustoms said:
I'd send them 3 good pieces of brass that are ready to stick a bullet in - minus the primer.
They are asking for freshly fired brass. I asked if they needed my sizing die too and they said "no". I guess they will know the size it should be from fired brass?
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Freshly fired is the right SOP. You don't want to size them first, definitely not. I've got about half dozen custom sets, and each time it was freshly fired brass I sent them.
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@orkan said:
Freshly fired is the right SOP. You don't want to size them first, definitely not. I've got about half dozen custom sets, and each time it was freshly fired brass I sent them.
If I'm not mistaken, the OP was in regards to just a custom seater, not a full set/sizer? In that case, I would think the custom seater would be made according to a sized piece of brass as that is how it would be in use.
If you are looking for a full set, then yes, freshly fired would be what they're looking for.
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One should probably call them to be sure... as I'm not 100% positive on what their process is. If they use the fired brass and then "tolerance" it for a sized brass... or if the build it directly off the supplied case. When I last ordered a single seating die, they told me to send fired brass, untouched. When they have done my combo dies, they build the seater off fired brass as well... but I wonder if they use the sizing die to size the case and then build the seater somehow?
Would be nice to know which is the "rightest" way.
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They said they wanted fired and unsized brass. I asked if they needed the custom size I already had and they said "no". They are supposed to call when they get the brass and I will verify it with them again. They said they still had the dimensions on file for my seater but didn't want to dig through files to find it.
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Using fired brass to dimension the seater makes sense in the fact that they don't know if the end user will be full length or neck sizing his brass. They would want to have enough clearance for either case as I'm sure they have no desire to field a call going "hey, my brass sticks in my seating die".
The typical .002" of squeeze on a sized case is not going to be enough clearance to cause undue runout in a loaded round from that "excess" clearance in the seater.
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Whidden got my brass today and called to talk to me. I clarified with them that the brass was fired and not sized and they confirmed that it is exactly what they wanted.
They also let me know that the seating stem is now made out of derlin instead of steel. They said that it was capable of seating bullets without marring the jacket on them. I hope they are as good as whidden says they are. I HATE new things as I don't want to be the one to find out they are junk. My question was consistency with a plastic seating stem. I guess we will see.
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I'd be worried about wear.
I guess I don't know how hard delrin is compared to brass.
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@dddoo7 said:
I HATE new things as I don't want to be the one to find out they are junk. My question was consistency with a plastic seating stem. I guess we will see.
You aren't trying out a new thing. I've been running their polymer seaters for a while now and have noticed no ill effects and reduced bullet marking. I have the plastic inserts in 3 or 4 seaters I think. I'm pretty sure Travis has some of them too.
The entire seating stem is not polymer... just the little insert that comes in contact with the bullet.
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Good deal. I would much rather you be the guinea pig rather than me.
BTW-- I have quite a few wilson seaters, neck sizers, and couple of very nice arbor presses that are going to be up for sale very soon now if anyone is interested.
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I might be interested in an arbor press. Shoulda kept the one I had years ago... but have been looking for an excuse.
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I have a K&M and a 21st century hydro.
The 21st century hyrdo won't read LOWER than 40 psi...but is accurate above that. 21st century can rebuilt it to read lower...but all of my bullet seating was above 40 psi so I didn't worry about it. The hydro is nice...but I consider it a secondary press because it cannot handle anything over 100 psi...and virgin brass is almost always over 100 psi.
The K&M is a very well built press.
Is there a reason why I will want an arbor press in the future? I don't want to sell these just to find out that I still need one for something else.
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@dddoo7 said:
Is there a reason why I will want an arbor press in the future?
You just never know, do you? For what the stuff costs, having it around to drag out when you have an "idea" sometime isn't a big expense. There are lots of instances where I found myself wishing I wouldn't have sold things like that. Arbor presses are nice for when you might not have the right equipment for a task, but just want to "check something out" and see if it works. When wildcatting for instance.
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@orkan said:
@dddoo7 said:
Is there a reason why I will want an arbor press in the future?
You just never know, do you? For what the stuff costs, having it around to drag out when you have an "idea" sometime isn't a big expense. There are lots of instances where I found myself wishing I wouldn't have sold things like that. Arbor presses are nice for when you might not have the right equipment for a task, but just want to "check something out" and see if it works. When wildcatting for instance.
Good point. I will keep the K&M then as it is my favorite. I will make a good deal on the hydro since it won't read below 40 psi...if you are interested.
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Nah, I wouldn't want the hydro for the same reasons as you. ;)
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Makes sense. It is a very cool idea...but unless one is shooting bench rest with very little neck tension it is really not that useful. I should have bought the whidden die 6 months ago instead of the hydro press...but live and learn. Once again...just listen Orkan to start with and save money in the long run.
have you noticed the 21st century seating dies? They look interesting...but are down the same road as the wilsons that I am trying to get away from.
