Barrel cleaning
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Recently we've had a couple customers whom have had stoppages on their bolt guns due to improper barrel care. I became curious as to what most consider "normal" care.
What is your cleaning regimen on your bore?
Be specific please.
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The rifles I shoot regularly, I clean every 300-500 rounds. I start with hoppes #9. Let it sit a while 5-10 minutes then wipe it out. I then move to hoppes copper terminator and let that sit at least 15 minutes before wipping it out. I then switch back to hoppes #9 and do that again. I continue till the patch wipping out the copper solvent shows little to no green. Once I'm done I do another pass of hoppes #9 and wipe out. Lastly I run a patch with slip 2000 ewl followed by a dry patch.
I use dedicated nylon brushes to spread the #9 and the copper terminator. Everything is pushed breech to muzzle with carbon fiber rod and all brushes and jags are removed before pulling the rod back through. And I always use a one piece bore guide.
The rifles I don't shoot regularly I clean in a similar fashion but with only one or two interations of #9 and copper solvent each time before I put them back in the safe.
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I clean when I think accuracy is being effected, or if I need accuracy, (like before hunting i'LL clean then go foul)
I use wipe out, and VFG Pellets.
I run a saturated pellet down the bore, and wait according to the directions on the bottle of wipe out. Then I run a brush about 10 times back and forth.
Then I run a fresh pellet.
I run a second fresh pellet, to get all the breakup out.
Then run a second soaked pellet, if it looks clean I'll run another clean pellet down the note to pick up the wipe out or scrub again if it's not clean.
In between the waiting I usually clean the bolt with a toothbrush and q tips, getting everything as best I can. I grease all the sliding bits with grease (usually Mobil grease from work when I change tubes, there's always a bit left over) and wipe the rest of it down with a cotton rag that I dipped in clean transmission oil. I haven't really stripped the bolt down to look at the inside yet.
I also wipe the rifle down with the cotton rag and transmission oil.
I've never cleaned the chamber or locking lugs on the rifle, but I'll do that next time after learning it's probably more important then I realized.
After all the cleaning I function test it, and make sure everything is working properly, (safety, trigger) and check all the mounting screws (scope, bipod, action screws) and either lock it away or go shoot.
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I do a "fast clean" or a "thorough".
Fast clean is running a ripcord with a Kroil soaked Bore-Tip on the tail end. Let it soak in for a few minutes then run the ripcord thru a few times to get the Kroil out. I then put a paper towel under the muzzle (absorb any left over Kroil) when setting the gun into the safe.
For the "thorough" cleaning, I recently started using Flitz Bore Cleaner.
This is applied on a bronze bore brush and the bore is scrubbed back and forth a couple/few times. I let it sit for a few minutes, then patch it out using a Parker Hale Jag. I will repeat the application and scrubbing once again and patch it out. I then run a patch soaked in Kroil thru the bore, Let sit for a bit then patch that out. The rifle is then stood muzzle down with a paper towel to catch any residual Kroil. After a day or so I set them butt down.
I use a Tipton Carbon Fiber rod and bore guides specific to the rifle being cleaned.
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Mine gets cleaned after every range trip. This is usually 50 rounds or so but I've shot up to a couple hundred without noticing my accuracy drop off. I wasn't shooting groups though so I'm sure it suffered and I didn't notice.
Possum hollow bore guide and a proshot one piece stainless rod.
Run a soaked patch with kg1 and let it work for 5-10 minutes.
Scrub the bore with a bronze brush. Long and slow strokes. I guide the rod with a towel in my left hand to try to avoid dragging the crap back into the gun.
Chase it with another kg1 patch to pull all the crap out. Then let it soak for 5 minutes and repeat the scrubbing.
I keep going till the kg1 patch comes out mostly clean. Then I spray the bore with what is basically alcohol to flush any residue out. I've found the factory barrels need 7-8 repetitions to get all the black out. This new bartlein on my 308 gives me a clean patch in 3-4.
After that I run a patch soaked in kg12 and let it sit for 15-30 to work on copper. I'll generally go clean and put away the rest of my stuff/decap brass and tumble/scrub off the thread protector with the kg1/whatever. Then I'll scrub with a bronze brush followed by a wet patch to collect any of the crap. My factory guns give up a fair amount of copper but I've never seen any in this new 308.
Then I flush the bore again and run a dry patch.
Finally I'll run a oil patch, then a dry patch down the bore. Remove the bore guide and try to dry the chamber with qtips and paper towels in case some leaked into there.Then she gets locked up.
Out of curiosity, what type of stoppage are these guys experiencing?
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I clean my rifles when @orkan tells me that is the reason it is not shooting tiny groups anymore. :)
I am still learning all of this stuff...but my current goal is to clean BEFORE accuracy falls off. I know it will fall off at somewhere between 225-250 rounds. I have gone as much as 500...but don't intend to try that again. I am going to watch my shooting log and clean somewhere around or just shy of 200 rounds this time...that way I don't have to deal with chasing fliers as the accuracy falls off.
to clean...I will run a wet patch of copper eater (I had to look...but I am using boretech CU+2) down the bore. Then I run a wet bronze brush down the bore back and forth about 20 times. Then I run another wet patch down the bore...followed by a dry one.
Then I repeat until I can't stand it anymore or until I quit seeing blue on the last dry patch. It is tricky because the bronze brush will leave enough copper to render the patch blue.
Then as I finish up I run a patch of Kroil down the barrel. I don't think this is necessary...but I like how it smells. Then I chase that with a dry patch and it is ready to foul and shoot again.
I usually remove the barrel from the rifle for cleaning. It just seems to make things easier with the DT. I have now retired my dewey rods for fear the coating will come off and I have two brand new proshot stainless rods waiting for the next cleaning. I use dewey bronze core brushes for fear that the galvanized steel twist in the middle of cheap brushes will somehow bend and scratch my barrel.
I do tear down the bolt once in a while and clean it thoroughly. I grease the lugs every 150 rounds or so...don't want them to gald.
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Wipe bolt down after every range trip. Cleaning the bore depends on rifle but it follows. Lucas bore guide liberal tears( wipe out and patch out) and call it a day.
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This Barrel Cleaning thread motivated me to clean an AR upper, something I really do not look forward to. It also gave me an excuse to play with a new gadget I bought on Ebay for about 8or 9 $s.
Some nice Chinese person mailed it to me and it arrived 2 days ago.
Here is a picture I took with it. I got the 5.5mm version. It works pretty good for inspecting the chamber and hard to look at spots. This is inside of an AR barrel showing some color.
5M-Android-Endoscope-Waterproof-Borescope-Micro-USB-Inspection-Video-Camera
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One piece rod and bore guide for starters!
3-5 wet patches with Wipe-Out Patch Out until the wet patches are looking like the loose stuff is gone.
Dry patch
Loose fitting wet patch to wet the bore
10-15 brush strokes with a bronze brush - yes, I push it out past the muzzle and carefully draw it back. (Don't reverse it in the bore)
Dry patch
A few more wet patches to get out what the brush loosened up.
A couple dry patches
Bore guide comes out and the chamber gets cleaned with a chunk of blue shop towel wrapped around a mop.
Bore guide goes back in.
One alcohol patch is pushed through the bore to get any remaining solvent.
One more dry patch.
Clean the chamber again.I like to have a snug fit between the wet patch and the bore. Not so much so that I break a sweat pushing it through the barrel but I want nice contact so I can get a little scrubbing action going as I work the rod back and forth down the length of the barrel.
I really like the Dewey Parker Hale style jags as they hold on to patches really well. We keep a plethora of sizes of patches and jags around to always be able to get a nice fit.Match guns get it every 100-350 rounds or whenever convenient between matches.
I ALWAYS clean a new barrel before firing it, again in the first 10-20 rounds, again in the next 30 rounds, and again around 30-50 rounds. I try to clean 3-5 times in the first 100 rounds.
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Barrel cleaning is a good time to check torque on ring caps, ring cross bolts, and guard screws. I do every time I clean the barrel.
Also do what I can to wipe out bolt lug recesses, bolt nose counterbore, bolt body, and receiver raceways.
Finish up with re-greasing the lugs.
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When accuracy degrades or pre-match. Obviously after I clean, I foul and confirm zero before I head off to a comp.
Bore-
Lucas bore guide on my AI and DT boreguide on DT. Pro shot steel rod.
3 wet patches on a Parker style jag of Boretech eliminator and let it sit for 5-10 minutes.
15 strokes back and through with nylon or brass brush past the muzzle and gently back.
Another 5-10 wet ones. Going back and forth on the way down.If it still shows copper (very rare) I dry with one patch alcohol and hit with boretech copper plus on a couple patches and let it sit then do the same routine as above until copper isn't showing.
Then I then I always finish with alcohol patch.Paper towel around bore mop for chamber and I use the cheap Tipton lug recess kit to get as much out of that area as possible. I don't use any chemical in the chamber / lug recess area.
Bolt-
I wipe it down with old shirt and nylon brush the face and q tip the detailed areas of the bolt.
I then use Finish Line dry chain lube on the entire bolt itself and add a little grease behind the lugs or major wear areas.I then wipe down the bolt race ways with mop, again wrapped with paper towel.
Done and since I feel real good about cleaning some of my most prized possessions, I look at my calendar and carve out some time to go shoot!
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Bore guide & Dewey Rod. Chemicals I use are Butchs Bore shine, Bore Tech Eliminator and Kroil. Depending on number of rounds dictates length of cleaning regimen.
A couple wet patches of Butches, followed by a brass brush 10 strokes followed by patch. Another wet patch followed by brush and dry patch. I do this till patch after brushing is pretty clean. Then one wet patch of eliminator followed by a bore tech nylon brush a couple dry patches then a patch of Kroil followed by a dry patch. Clean chamber, clean bolt, grease lugs. I also check all bolts and screws. ( rings, action etc)
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I have been using Cleckner's method for a few years.
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@orkan
Greg,
How do you clean your rifles? I was just looking at this thread, because my 36" gunslick rod is just a tad too short with my new desert tech. So I need to buy a longer 1-piece rod. But I would also like to know how you clean.
I've been using that gunslick foaming bore cleaner, then when the dry patches come out clean. Mix in a brush a few times, then some CLP after the patches and dry patches until they come out clean.
It has seemed to work, but I'm still pretty inexperienced.
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I use proshot 1 piece rods. It goes a little like this:
Put jag on rod.
Put patch on jag.
Soak patch with wipe-out patch-out accelerator.
Shove through bore.
Repeat.
Soak patch with wipe-out patch-out.
Shove through bore.
Wait 5 minutes.
Put bronze brush on rod.
Push back and forth through bore out muzzle end, back into muzzle end, into chamber area. (don't reverse in bore)
Do that dozen or so times.
Put jag on rod and push 2 wet patches of wipe-out patch-out.
Repeat as necessary.
Finish with 3-4 dry patches.For stubborn carbon rings in front of chamber... I'll throw some shooters choice on a brush and scrub back and forth the first 1-4 inches of throat, reversing in bore and all... whatever it takes to get the ring out.
The above jag usage can easily be replaced by wrapping a patch around your brush.
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@orkan said:
For stubborn carbon rings in front of chamber... I'll throw some shooters choice on a brush and scrub back and forth the first 1-4 inches of throat, reversing in bore and all... whatever it takes to get the ring out.
Always good to hold on to a few semi-worn out brushes that will easily reverse in the bore for this ^ reason.
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I thought my barrel was clean. I had just thoroughly cleaned the barrel 40 rounds ago...and had spent extra time on the throat in case there was a carbon ring.
Then I found out the truth.
Orkan recommended a Lyman Borescope. It is about $200...and while I usually don't have much respect for anything Lee or Lyman...this tool is worth the money. I'm sure it is not the best borescope...but it gets the job done for me.
This is what I saw when I scoped the bore for the first time. This is at the lead end of the chamber just before the rifling starts. Notice that heavy black ring of carbon running up and down right in the middle of the picture?
This is the same spot after soaking and brushing every few minutes for about an hour.
About another hour later
another hour or so later
a little while later
and this is where i finally stopped.
Point being is that without a borescope you don't know what your barrel looks like. From looking down the barrel it looked clean. Patches came out clean...yet it was caked up with carbon in the throat.
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Excellent post @dddoo7. This is a recurring theme. People simply don't clean their throats aggressively enough.
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I have about 5 hours in this cleaning. Soak, let sit 5-10 minutes, scrub, soak, sit 5-10 minutes, scrub, dry patch, check with borescope...and repeat a ridiculous number of times. I wore out two .30 cal bronze brushes trying to get that carbon ring out. Best combo for cleaning was accelerator and wipe out mixed on the brush. shooters choice didn't seem to touch it...but I may have been doing something wrong too.
BTW-- you should put one of your fancy amazon links to this bore scope.
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Yea looks like another thing to add to "the list" hahaha
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@dddoo7 said:
BTW-- you should put one of your fancy amazon links to this bore scope.
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@dddoo7 said:
I thought my barrel was clean. I had just thoroughly cleaned the barrel 40 rounds ago...and had spent extra time on the throat in case there was a carbon ring.
Then I found out the truth.
Orkan recommended a Lyman Borescope. It is about $200...and while I usually don't have much respect for anything Lee or Lyman...this tool is worth the money. I'm sure it is not the best borescope...but it gets the job done for me.
This is what I saw when I scoped the bore for the first time. This is at the lead end of the chamber just before the rifling starts. Notice that heavy black ring of carbon running up and down right in the middle of the picture?
This is the same spot after soaking and brushing every few minutes for about an hour.
About another hour later
another hour or so later
a little while later
and this is where i finally stopped.
Point being is that without a borescope you don't know what your barrel looks like. From looking down the barrel it looked clean. Patches came out clean...yet it was caked up with carbon in the throat.
How many rounds through that bore?
I think my 7mm RM barrel copper fouls too much, I don't have a borescope to be sure but looking through the muzzle I see copper streaks everywhere after the first shot after cleaning to bare metal.
I don't cleaned the rifle until it had 80-90 rounds through the bore when it was new, then I've cleaned it to bare metal after every 10-20 rounds for a total of 15 times. It's an old Mauser 96, not sure but I think it has a hammer forged barrel.My cleaning procedure is always the same, first soak with hoppes 9 and scrub a few times with nylon brush, clean dry patches, soak with hoppes 9 scrub, clean dry patches until the patches show green, then I scrub with C2R (carbon/copper remover) until patches come out pristine white. The last few times I've cleaned it, after all this I've wrapped a patch on a brass brush with iosso bore paste and scrubbed the bore a few times and cleaned the paste with hoppes 9 patches and dry patches until they come out white, then I run a soaked patch with Eezox oil and another two dry patches to remove the excess.
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This is a 308 win barrel and I just hit 1,100 rounds through it.
I have tried hoppes #9 and couldn't get it to do much of anything except remove some powder residue. I also tried nylon brushes and didn't have much luck with them removing fouling either.
If you are seeing copper color then there is fouling in the barrel. As clean as you think it is I would still guess that you are not getting all of the fouling out of the barrel.
Also...my 308 takes about 10 rounds to settle back in after cleaning before it starts shooting to its potential. I am currently cleaning mine about every 150 rounds because accuracy falls off at about 200 rounds. I do think cleaning every 10-20 rounds is overkill...but I'll let others chime in as well.
In the past I used bore tech copper remover to clean the bore...but at the recommendation of @orkan I switched to wipe-out patch-out combined with accelerator now. The new combination cleans much faster and much more thoroughly.
I don't know anything about the other chemicals you listed...but someone with some know how will no doubt post in a bit.
I do know that clean patches are not a good indicator of a clean bore. I have always cleaned (when I did) until I had clean patches...but the bore scope revealed that my barrel was still caked with carbon in the throat and even some throughout the lands/grooves.
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The only other cleaner I use semi-frequently is butch's bore shine. When I've got some stubborn carbon, it seems to help out a bit. Kroil can work in certain instances as well.
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I see copper streaks after the first shot with clean barrel, that's why I am now cleaning after every 10-20 rounds, to see if it lasts longer to foul also because I think my groups start to get bigger.
About the chemicals I use C2R is the best copper remover I used by far, I can't prove it leaves my bore to bare metal but I bet it does and it is ammonia free.
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Maybe this should be in a separate thread, but I'll go ahead and post it here.
With my barrels I've found that stripping out the copper too frequently degrades precision until 10 or 20 rounds have been fired, then my groups tighten back up.
I strip the carbon often, depending on the load as frequently as every 20 rounds, but don't aggressively remove the copper until the groups open up again.
That said, I have a friend who strips the copper after every 10 rounds in his barrel burners and he shoots 1/4" groups.I'd like to hear what more experienced shooters experience.
