Cycle issues
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I purchased the 18” 223 Wylde upper from Palmetto State Armory and installed it on an Anderson arms lower.
The buffer and buffer spring were purchased from Palmetto but I don’t have a part number. I ordered several at one time. The spring measures approximately 10.5 inches.
I have fired over 100 rounds and only 3 times did it properly cycle a round. It ejects the fired round (All but 2 rounds) but does not load the next round unless I manually pull the handle back.
The Bolt Carrier group is a Nickel Boron BCG purchased from Palmetto.
I am fireing Federal 5.56 ammo/55 gr. FMJ
Gas block was installed by mfg when I purchased the upper and I double checked it and it appears to be done right.Would appreciate some input on getting this gun to cycle properly.
Any suggestions
Thanks
Kirk Allen
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On last round the bolt does not stay opened unless I pull the handle back manually, then it does.
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I would contact PSA and see what they will do with it. If you bought a factory built upper and all parts from them then it should work properly.
I'm guessing it is a gas issue...but I wouldn't know for sure.
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@dddoo7 said:
I would contact PSA and see what they will do with it. If you bought a factory built upper and all parts from them then it should work properly.
I'm guessing it is a gas issue...but I wouldn't know for sure.
I agree, gas or improper buffer.
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I stuck a straw in the gas key on the BCG and blew air in. I get bubbles (air leak) directly under the gas key. I can also see black powder marks at that point. I am assuming there should not be ANY gas leaking on the mounting face of the gas key? Checked my other BCG from Palmetto and it leaks at the same exact point, directly under the gas tube.
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Keys are staked, BCG is brand new. I have another one I will try.
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Installed BCG from my other A2 AR15 and same problem. Short cycle. I guess now I point towards buffer and spring?
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it could still be a gas hole too small in the barrel or not lined up with the gas block.
I guess buffer is easy to check if you have others laying around though.
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What is the gas system length, i.e. carbine, mid or rifle?
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Gas block is about 13.5 inches from the BCG. Barrel length is 18.
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You have a rifle length gas system. Are you using a fixed stock, like the A2?
The 10.5" spring would not be the correct application if the stock is a fixed rifle buffer tube. It would also require the rifle buffer.
Will the bolt hold open after the last round is fired?
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Try running compressed air down the barrel with the bolt closed. You should hear good free air movement through the gas hole and tube. If you loosen the gas block and rotate it slightly you can hear where max flow occurs and lock it back down.
Also check the gas key to gas tube alignment. Pull the bolt and install the bolt carrier only. Push the carrier back and forth on the upper to see if it catches on the part of the gas tube sticking in the upper.
Many new ARs have a little gas escape around the block. You have high pressure passing through mating parts that aren't machined perfectly to fit. It usually isn't an issue and typically gets sealed shut with carbon fairly quickly.
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95% sure it will be your gas block not being alinged with the gas hole. Just take the block off and look at the two holes. If you see a half or crescent moon shape of carbon on either hole you know your problem.
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@mamalukino said:
You have a rifle length gas system. Are you using a fixed stock, like the A2?
The 10.5" spring would not be the correct application if the stock is a fixed rifle buffer tube. It would also require the rifle buffer.
Will the bolt hold open after the last round is fired?You can run a carbine buffer on a rifle gas system no problem. If anything it makes the gun over gassed. The carbine buffer is lighter than the rifle.
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@norcal_in_az said:
@mamalukino said:
You have a rifle length gas system. Are you using a fixed stock, like the A2?
The 10.5" spring would not be the correct application if the stock is a fixed rifle buffer tube. It would also require the rifle buffer.
Will the bolt hold open after the last round is fired?You can run a carbine buffer on a rifle gas system no problem. If anything it makes the gun over gassed. The carbine buffer is lighter than the rifle.
Yes, you can run a carbine buffer with a rifle gas system; however, if running a rifle (fixed stock) receiver extension you need the proper spring and buffer. Carbine length extension requires the correct spring and buffer.
If the bolt locks back on an empty mag it could indicate that the buffer is too light.
That is why I am asking about his buffer setup.
I also believe that it is a gas problem, but figured to add to the troubleshooting if that was not the case.
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@mamalukino said:
You have a rifle length gas system. Are you using a fixed stock, like the A2?
The 10.5" spring would not be the correct application if the stock is a fixed rifle buffer tube. It would also require the rifle buffer.
Will the bolt hold open after the last round is fired?Magpul adjustable stock
Yes, bold holds open but only after I pull it back as it will not recoil enough to lock it back.
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@kea said:
@mamalukino said:
You have a rifle length gas system. Are you using a fixed stock, like the A2?
The 10.5" spring would not be the correct application if the stock is a fixed rifle buffer tube. It would also require the rifle buffer.
Will the bolt hold open after the last round is fired?Magpul adjustable stock
Yes, bold holds open but only after I pull it back as it will not recoil enough to lock it back.That would more than likely eliminate buffer/spring issue.
@norcal_in_az said:
95% sure it will be your gas block not being alinged with the gas hole. Just take the block off and look at the two holes. If you see a half or crescent moon shape of carbon on either hole you know your problem.
Do this.
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@a_marks said:
Try running compressed air down the barrel with the bolt closed. You should hear good free air movement through the gas hole and tube. If you loosen the gas block and rotate it slightly you can hear where max flow occurs and lock it back down.
Also check the gas key to gas tube alignment. Pull the bolt and install the bolt carrier only. Push the carrier back and forth on the upper to see if it catches on the part of the gas tube sticking in the upper.
Many new ARs have a little gas escape around the block. You have high pressure passing through mating parts that aren't machined perfectly to fit. It usually isn't an issue and typically gets sealed shut with carbon fairly quickly.
BCG slides free and nothing catching.
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Installed a carbine upper from Brownells I had on hand and with the same BCG/Lower assembly it cycles PERFECT. That points me to the upper on the 223 Wylde. I will check the gas block this week.
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Upper on its way back to the MFG. NOTHING tried would make this gun cycle properly.
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@kea said:
Upper on its way back to the MFG. NOTHING tried would make this gun cycle properly.
Did you check the gas block?
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@norcal_in_az said:
@kea said:
Upper on its way back to the MFG. NOTHING tried would make this gun cycle properly.
Did you check the gas block?
Yes. I even purchased a gas block alignment tool from https://hbindustries.net/store/shop/ar15-gas-block-aligner-5-56mm/.
It was off a little from the factory but still have the same problem after getting it centered. I suspect the gas hole in the barrel is undersized.
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I appreciate customer service and a company that stands by their product but I do not appreciate ZERO response to multiple emails that they tell you to send if you have a problem, nor waiting on the phone for over an hour to talk to a service rep.
Long story short, I returned the upper assembly along with my bolt carrier that I purchased from Palmetto State Armory. About 10 days later I get a box delivered on the back porch. I open it up to find the upper assembly and new bolt carrier with a letter attached.
"The problem was with your barrel and BCG. We replaced your barrel and BCG and had no cycling problems with 5.56 ammo. "
Thanks, I now have an upper that works, which I appreciate, BUT WHAT THE HELL WAS WRONG WITH THE ONE YOU SENT!
It would be nice to know so that next time I might possibly fix it myself instead of spending an hour on the phone and having to type out emails that have YET to be answered.
I believe I am done with PSA.
OK, rant over.
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@kea said:
I appreciate customer service and a company that stands by their product but I do not appreciate ZERO response to multiple emails that they tell you to send if you have a problem, nor waiting on the phone for over an hour to talk to a service rep.
Long story short, I returned the upper assembly along with my bolt carrier that I purchased from Palmetto State Armory. About 10 days later I get a box delivered on the back porch. I open it up to find the upper assembly and new bolt carrier with a letter attached.
"The problem was with your barrel and BCG. We replaced your barrel and BCG and had no cycling problems with 5.56 ammo. "
Thanks, I now have an upper that works, which I appreciate, BUT WHAT THE HELL WAS WRONG WITH THE ONE YOU SENT!
It would be nice to know so that next time I might possibly fix it myself instead of spending an hour on the phone and having to type out emails that have YET to be answered.
I believe I am done with PSA.
OK, rant over.
I can understand your tone on this, but can't say I agree with it. You have to remember that we live in a litigious society. Everyone sues everyone else for any damn thing that strikes them. Real or imagined.
I have no ties to palmetto state armory, nor do I care about them one way or the other, so my comments are in general here, not regarding them what so ever.
Why do they have an obligation to teach you how to troubleshoot AR15's? You purchased a product, it didn't work, and after ten days you have new parts that function as advertised. They should have got it right the first time, but they didn't. They made good inside of 2 weeks from learning of a problem. That's pretty good in my book. If they wanted to teach you what the cause was and give you an AR15 armorers school over the phone, I'm sure you would have been happy to get it for free, but are you sure that expectation is aligned with a free man's world?
There's also a legal exposure. If they tell you what was wrong, they admit wrong-doing, and that's hell on wheels in a court room. Why would you care, if they immediately fixed your issue?
There's no excuse for lack of communication. Would have taken seconds and would have kept your fire down. You don't have to write a book when replying to a customer. Takes a few keystrokes is all to let them know you've got their back.
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I have had issues when psa parts being out of spec. I have also had issues with missing parts from orders...only to be told when I called that the parts were now backordered. I have not done a lot of business with PSA...but found out quickly that you are getting what you pay for with PSA both in customer service and equipment.
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@orkan said:
@kea said:
I appreciate customer service and a company that stands by their product but I do not appreciate ZERO response to multiple emails that they tell you to send if you have a problem, nor waiting on the phone for over an hour to talk to a service rep.
Long story short, I returned the upper assembly along with my bolt carrier that I purchased from Palmetto State Armory. About 10 days later I get a box delivered on the back porch. I open it up to find the upper assembly and new bolt carrier with a letter attached.
"The problem was with your barrel and BCG. We replaced your barrel and BCG and had no cycling problems with 5.56 ammo. "
Thanks, I now have an upper that works, which I appreciate, BUT WHAT THE HELL WAS WRONG WITH THE ONE YOU SENT!
It would be nice to know so that next time I might possibly fix it myself instead of spending an hour on the phone and having to type out emails that have YET to be answered.
I believe I am done with PSA.
OK, rant over.
I can understand your tone on this, but can't say I agree with it. You have to remember that we live in a litigious society. Everyone sues everyone else for any damn thing that strikes them. Real or imagined.
I have no ties to palmetto state armory, nor do I care about them one way or the other, so my comments are in general here, not regarding them what so ever.
Why do they have an obligation to teach you how to troubleshoot AR15's? You purchased a product, it didn't work, and after ten days you have new parts that function as advertised. They should have got it right the first time, but they didn't. They made good inside of 2 weeks from learning of a problem. That's pretty good in my book. If they wanted to teach you what the cause was and give you an AR15 armorers school over the phone, I'm sure you would have been happy to get it for free, but are you sure that expectation is aligned with a free man's world?
There's also a legal exposure. If they tell you what was wrong, they admit wrong-doing, and that's hell on wheels in a court room. Why would you care, if they immediately fixed your issue?
There's no excuse for lack of communication. Would have taken seconds and would have kept your fire down. You don't have to write a book when replying to a customer. Takes a few keystrokes is all to let them know you've got their back.
Great questions Greg. Recall I said, "long story short". Let me explain more of the story.
When I finally got on the phone with them they gave me several things to do in hopes of solving the problem. None of them worked.
Then, after another hour on hold, they told me to send it in. I asked them if they were going to fix it or replace it. They said they would look at it tell me what was wrong with it and tell me my options and possible cost because it was out of the warranty time frame. I did not ask for an armorers school nor expected one. I only expected them to be people of their word, which was that they would contact me and tell me what was wrong with it and my options to get it fixed. They never called.I understand legal exposure but that should only be a concern in a case where their mistake hurt someone.
I am glad I got it resolved with a replacement but I have zero patience for companies that tell me they are going to do something and then never follow through. They told me to email them with the details. I did that no less than 6 times and have NEVER heard back from a single communication.
I agree with you, a simple, hey, the gas hole was too small so we installed a new barrel, your good to go, I would be happy.
I cant imagine not telling one of my nozzle customers what was wrong with a nozzle they sent in for repair, although 26 years running that has never happen! :)
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I only cared about what was wrong because they assured me they would let me know what the problem was and they did not. Sure, I wanted to know the cause as I have already done my research and believed I knew the problem but now I have no idea what the fix would have been. I can't tell you how many Fire Departments I have given free advice to on how to fix their equipment, of which it was not even my product. I don't think expecting them to honor their word is asking to much. I should note, when I called them, they told me they would have an answer for me within 48 hours of it hitting their door and they would call me. No call ever came!
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Well, sounds like they suck indeed. Thanks for explaining in detail.
