Unrealistic standards of beauty...
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I'm glad Orkan helped me to not give a shit about this fake standard of beauty any more and my daughter is being raised in a home where makeup and all that crap is thought to be unnecessary.
Thank you dearest :)
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Just another reason why I have no interest in dating.
Enough girls around here spend more in makeup in a year then I do shooting.
And they still look like Oompa Loompas and it's not like they're not good looking without makeup.
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My wife goes makeup free as well. My preference and hers. There are not many women like my wife for many reasons. I am very blessed.
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Loyalty is the key for me..... And pretty eyes.
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Yup. I've been saying it for years. Many years.
The only thing more of a train wreck than these hollywood celebs fake looks is their fake lives and fake happiness.
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It is better to look good than to feel good.
Darling , you look marvelous.
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@hypo thanks :) And ain't that the truth....looks over loving yourself & feeling good. So sickening!
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My first wife was a good time girl.
As long as I was working and she didn't have to, woo hoo.
When it looked like the gravy train was coming to and end , she punched her ticket and got off.She was my first and I was faithful for 12 years.
Bad thing for her was, she had lost her looks in the 12 years.
If that is all you have to offer, you are up the creek when they inevitably go away.
My way of explaining it is asking if people had ever seen the Adam Sandler movie Water Boy?
She started off like Water Boy's girlfriend Vikki Valencourt.
After 12 years she had turned in to Water Boy's Momma, and was just as crazy.
Her idea to get divorced not mine.
I was single for nearly 6 years.Got burned a couple of times over that period as well.
Live and learn. I traded up.
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My wife and my daughters only use makeup on special occasions like weddings and such, otherwise, it's just powder. My daughters use chap stick, lipstick only on those special occasions.
I looked through those images and some of those are terrible Photoshop jobs. I used to be a photographer that worked with pageant contestants and models and my rule was always to enhance what was already there, but never so much that one looses detail on the skin. For example a little darkening of the dark ring around the pupil (called pretty eyes), a little softening of the skin, removing pimples or minor scars, whitening the eyes or teeth, but never to the point of pure white, neither are white. Actually natural color of teeth is a bit yellow. But when photographers start stretching necks, enlarging breasts, opening eyes, and softening the skin to the point that women look like a porcelain doll, and stuff like that, that is way over doing it. My $.02.
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Make-up is make-up, photoshop is photoshop. No matter how little of it is going on, the underlying principle is exactly the same: They aren't good enough the way they are.
That is a message I refuse to get behind.
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True beauty is internal.
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The problem is considerably deeper than what is on the surface.
Think about this for a second: What is the effect of the normalization of people intentionally changing themselves on a daily basis to create a representation of themselves which is not true?
In a society where virtually everyone cultivates the perpetual lie about who they are, can we be surprised that all of the core moral fundamentals are degrading at a similar rate? Every time a woman puts on make-up, they are intentionally trying to make themselves appear different than they are. Men do the same things, in other ways.
It is the intentional misleading of others perceptions.
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I think that may be a part of why I am a truck driver.
Not much subjective criteria about my job performance.
Be on time safely.
Just don't smell bad when I get there.
I work alone.
Give me a mission and let me do my thing.
No politics.
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@orkan I agree with your perspective, but I also disagree, let me explain.
In my family, I've taken care that my daughters "know" they are beautiful no matter their appearance. When my wife asks me, "how do I look?" I give her the only answer I can, "you 'are' beautiful", no matter if she just woke up with crazy hair and pajamas or if she is wearing a night gown, makeup, heels, etc. I'd be a liar if I said anything different. I also "do" things that tell her that she is beautiful. I also take care that my daughters know that their worth as young ladies and future women is infinite and no matter what life throws their way their worth will not diminish one iota. So in this sense, I agree with you, my daughter wearing a little powder to hide her teenage pimples does not mean she is any more beautiful, or any uglier if she didn't hide them.
But I also disagree with you because not all girls are fortunate enough to live in a home where there is a father that loves their mother and shows them a living example of what a real man should be. Some girls grow with a low self esteem and a low self worth due to life circumstances. I have done the gamut of volunteer work at church to teach people of their worth, but I was also exposed through my photography work to the work of a lady that owns a modeling agency. She would take these girls that had been bullied to the point they thought they were garbage because they looked "different" than the popular girls around them, girls where even their own families rejected them, and just because they put on a little make up, because they learned to walk the runway in heels, and just because they got a few pictures that made look beautiful, you could see their faces light up and see that self confidence building up in them. And at this modeling academy you would see the typical nerdy girls with glasses, unruly hair, ripped jeans, and converse transform into beautiful young ladies that realized they were beautiful all along. Many gained the confidence they needed to see their worth and we never saw them again, others decided to continue on and I was fortunate enough to be part of that journey. I got to photograph 3 Miss Texas runner ups, 1 Miss Texas, and 1 Miss Teen USA, all of those girls came from this lady's modeling agency. Most of those pageant girls that started with low self esteem, low self worth, are now pursuing meaningful careers. (Aside: I just saw a comment by Miss World that goes something like this: "I am pro life and sex is for marriage." I think those are good values) So in this sense, I disagree with you. Do girls/women need makeup, heels, hair dos, thinning belts, etc. to be beautiful, of course not, God made them beautiful, each one of them is a unique, one of a kind masterpiece of the Creator. I think most people in this forum would agree with that, or at least not disagree. Unfortunately life circumstances shape people's own perceptions of their self worth, and for some, preaching in Church helped them see their worth, and for others, it just took someone to show them that they were beautiful all along, they just hadn't seen it themselves.
I don't intend to start a debate here. This is just my opinion based on my experience in my family and with the people that I've come in contact with in different capacities throughout my life. I am sure other's opinions may differ from mine, and that is ok, as I've said it before, I am here to learn, and when possible, for others to learn from me in what little I can contribute. All the best.
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"Fixing" them by "showing them they are beautiful" by having them prance up and down a runway?
I don't see it. I've dated models and been around modeling a bit myself. So in fact, I've seen the opposite of what you describe. The thought of taking broken women with low self esteem, and trying to make them "models" does not seem like helping them. It seems like perpetuation of a lie to make it easier for them. Not better, just easier. When their youth and beauty deteriorate, they'll be left right where you found them.
If helping them is the goal, then it should be explained that their true selves, inside and out, is what is important.
Having women "compete" against each other in "beauty pageants" as a mechanism to help them?
Nope. No friggin way. ... and you're right, it's not a debate. Hell, there's even several documentaries I've watched on netflix talking about how modeling destroyed womens lives. My wife tried to go down the road of covering up her vitiligo when it first appeared. I told her she was prettier without makeup. At first, strangers staring at her bothered her a lot. She had flawless skin when she was younger. With my support, she now feels far more beautiful than she ever did. Freeing a woman from competing with others regarding their looks is a sure-fire way of enhancing their lives. The earlier in life they understand that looks do not matter, the better off they will be. If they can't get a job because of how they look, then they don't need that job. If they can't get a mate because of how they look, then they don't WANT that mate. If they expertly deceive others by use of make-up and other deceptions... all they are doing is setting themselves up for a fall.
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@orkan said:
With my support, she now feels far more beautiful than she ever did.
Sure do and I can't thank you enough for helping me get to this point!
@orkan said:
Freeing a woman from competing with others regarding their looks is a sure-fire way of enhancing their lives. The earlier in life they understand that looks do not matter, the better off they will be.
This is the best gift in life I have ever been given. Being completely free from the competition, comparison and insecurity has enhanced my life in more ways than I could ever write out or share. It's absolutely amazing to be on the other side of the standard and feel 100% a-ok with it! I wish more females would be encouraged to find the confidence to do the same! :D
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I think my comments were taken in a way I did not intend them. I never said women can be "fixed" by having them prance up and down a runway. I also never said that having women compete against each other in beauty pageants is a mechanism to help them. I do not believe that. What I tried to say is that some women don't need anything to know they are beautiful and have infinite worth, others are helped through conversation, others by showing them that they are children of God, others are helped by showing them that they have a beauty they never saw themselves. Some choose to continue on and that is their choice. I choose to shoot/hunt/reload because it's something that relaxes me and that I enjoy. Others choose to fish, others choose to exercise, others choose drink themselves silly, and some women chose to compete in pageants. Their reasons are their own. I am sure some, or maybe many or most, compete because that his how they think they will be seen as beautiful, and maybe they will get the greatest disappointment when they realize that external beauty fades away. But there are those that shape their values of their self worth from their families, church, etc. and still choose to compete for other reasons. Who are we to say that if they become models, or pageant queens, or wear make up will destroy their lives? For some maybe these things contribute, but for all women that do so? I don't see it.
I also agree with you that the modeling/pageant industry destroys lives of women and they do a great deal to objectivise women. I saw this as well. My example of this lady's modeling academy was only meant to show a person that has a different perspective in that industry. I did get to meet other modeling and pageant directors that I refused to work with because they were essentially trying to make little girls into "sex" symbols by the clothes they had them wear and the poses they wanted me to construct.
In the end, we all have and make our own choices. Just because some people that hunt from the road, or that don't follow the rules doesn't mean that all hunters are like that, and just because people choose to conceal carry doesn't turn them into murders, not all women who choose to wear makeup, or compete in pageants, have a low sense of self worth and beauty. As the saying goes, "different stokes for different folks." Blessings.
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Nope, still can't get there with you.
You think young girls wake up one day and just have the thought in their head to wear make-up? Nope. If they didn't see women practicing the art of deception, they would never have the thought to do it. They see it, they think that is what they need to do to be beautiful, so they emulate it. ... and it's not good.
Obviously I use imgur to host my pictures. Well when the app loads I see the home page which is basically the "most upvoted" or most viral images. Know what is there mostly? Scantily clad women that are wearing ridiculous amounts of makeup and have been photoshopped to within an inch of their lives. Know what else? You almost NEVER see the same women. Always different women. MILLIONS of them.
Deception. Deception because the sickness in society is unchecked, and the masses WORSHIP these people as long as they look a certain way. If they don't look that way, they're just "normal" and no one worships normal.
It's all deception, and it's all bad.
Can you explain to me how a woman spending 2hrs in the bathroom every morning is good for them or their families?
In every instance above, I would prefer the woman on the left. Yet so quickly I forget that the reason most people prefer the woman on the right is the same reason most people don't get along with me: Most people prefer to be lied to. They claim otherwise, but the truth is that they would rather believe the lie than be confronted with the truth, if that truth is harsh.
I deal in truth. The truth is that make-up is deception.
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First of all, I think you and I can get along fine. :+1:
In every instance above, it's the same woman, and that is my point. Your examples above skew the conversation a bit because all those women are celebrities, they perform a role, and that role requires a certain standard. For women is hair and make up. For example, in executive jobs, both men and women are expected to wear a certain type of clothes, suit and tie for the men and dresses for women. Heck, I even remember inspection in ROTC in college, the sergeant would get right up on my face to check for a proper shave. Another example, my daughter works at dairy queen, make up is not required, but hair in a pony tail is. Would you say anything to me if I showed up in a white tux and white shinny dress shoes to go hunt coyotes with you? (besides telling me I'm an idiot ::smiley: Am I a different person just because of what I wear? Granted, with guys is different, we don't wear make up, but I could spend 45 mins getting ready on Sunday morning to serve at Mass, between a shower, shave, beard trim, and throwing on a suit and tie. Am I a different person because I choose to wear a suit and tie to serve at Mass compared to the real me that likes jeans and a t-shirt.
You asked if I can explain how a woman spending 2 hours getting ready is good for her or her family. I can only speak for the women in my life. I can't because I don't understand it either, they are beautiful to me no matter what, and besides, if my wife and I are getting ready for something we get ready together. But if my daughter is going to read at Mass then I will expect that she wears her best dress and her veil because that what is proper and reverent for going up on the altar to proclaim the word of God. Notice I said dress and veil, make up is up to her. Is she a different person because she wears a nice dress and a veil, vs wearing pajamas and a t-shirt like she likes at home? She isn't propagating any lie, is she?
The women above all have something in common, they are all celebrities, they chose that life, and yes, if they want to continue being celebrities, they will need to conform to the standards that industry has set. I don't agree with those standards, but my point is that women are beautiful with make up, fancy dresses, and hair dos, or with none of it. If we truly look at the person for who they are, then the external appearance doesn't matter. If it is someone that we care for, like in the case of your wife and mine, then we love them unconditionally no matter what they look like and we make sure they know that. And this is something I've explained to my daughters, the first sign that someone doesn't really love you for who you are, is the person that wants to change who you are or what you look like. I have met women that look like the women on the left and they lie just as much as anyone else, and I've met women that look like the women on the right and they are very humble and down to earth. One friend comes to mind, her husband owns a company that supplies parts to Apple, they also have several real estate investment properties, so they are millionaires . She dresses nice and wears make up, and she servers 5 days a week at the soup kitchen and Catholic Charities feeding the homeless here in Colorado. If she chose to wear jeans, a t-shirt, and no make up, would her serving the poor and homeless have a different value than if she wore a dress and make up? Isn't it the "heart" of the person what we should truly value, not the outward appearance? You and I can tell our daughters (I don't know if you have any, so just assuming), "baby your are beautiful", "dad, but I got pimples", "it doesn't matter baby, you are beautiful no matter what." But if covering those pimples with powder makes her feel better, more confident, less insecure...whatever, I say, so what, I know who she is, and I take care that she knows she is beautiful because of who she is, not what she looks like.
Me, and this is just me looking at this with the eyes of faith, a person, man or woman has infinite worth because of who they are, children of God, as such, I don't care if he/she wears makeup, is covered in tatoos, has piercings all over the place, or is clean cut, well dressed or in pajamas, or is a homeless that hasn't showered in months and stinks, or is Angelina Jolie with make up or without, it's the same child of God and deserves the same respect and dignity. Blessings.
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I disagree. It is not the same woman. One who deceives is not the same as one who does not.
It may be a harmless deception, but its deception none the less.
... or maybe it is extremely harmful, but allowed because it is normalized? When I see a woman wearing make-up, it causes me to react negatively. When I see a man covered in tattoos with metal spikes embedded in his forehead, I also react negatively. I do not like deception, in any form.
The simple fact that a man with metal spikes embedded into his skin is a human being, or "child of god" as you put it, just as one that doesn't have spikes in his head is also a human, is not up for debate. It's obvious. However, that does not mean I am going to treat them the same. We are created equal. We end up equal. We are NOT equal in between. You are better than many men. Whether you acknowledge it or not, is irrelevant. The quest to be a good person has systematically been replaced with the quest to be tolerant of everyone. What has that tolerance wrought upon this world?
It's all bullshit, and it's all bad for us. Everyone's obsession with looks is and the inevitable deception that follows is but a symptom of a larger illness.
