Peterson Cartridge Company



  • So, I stumbled on these guys some how, (I think it was through the Hide) and couldn't find much of anything on the net. Stands to reason I think they just started making brass in 2015. They are located in Warrendale PA, so an American company claiming to make very very high quality brass. (They claim as good as Lapua) Right now they only make 308 Winchester and 260 Remington brass, they plan on adding this year 300WM, 338 Lapua, and 375/408 Cheytac, this year, and are thinking about 6.5 Creedmoor.

    I run a 260 Remington, right now I use Lapua brass, and necked down Hornady 7mm-08 brass. Well I was not impressed with the Lapua brass I got, i don't know if I got a bad batch or whatever but upon the first reload I had primer pockets that were noticeably looser then the rest.

    So, I decided to order up some 260 Brass from this company, it wasn't the cheapest, I paid 108.83 for it shipped to my door. My order number on my confirmation email was #59.

    These are the boxes they come in:
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    I got them Saturday, built my bench that same day and loaded up a max charge weight ladder today.

    I weighed all the cases on my RCBS Chargemaster and here are some numbers I got,
    AVG Weight: 176.4 Grains
    Lowest Weight: 175.3
    Highest Weight: 178.3 Grains
    Extreme Spread: 3.1 Grains
    Standard Deviation: .6 Grains

    I don't know what other brass is like as I have never measured them, but that seems pretty impressive to me.

    The primer pockets were probably the tightest I've ever felt with CCI 200 primers.

    The necks with a Hornady 140 BTHP measured, around .295 the neck in my rifle is .297

    The case mouths on these were a little tight, it took quite a bit of pressure to seat the bullet, I'll run the rest all through my sizing die enough to expand the necks on the rest of the cases before loading them.

    This brass seems to be very promising, but it will be a long time before I've fired it enough to know for sure.



  • Looks interesting. I bet they would sell a lot if they made 6.5 creed.

    RELOAD10 will get you 10% off.


  • administrators

    I am very impressed with the packaging, the business card, and the personal note on the back. It is nice to see companies taking a personal interest in making the end customer feel like they are getting a good experience.

    Best of luck with the brass and you will have to let us know how it continues to go for you!



  • Yes, it was a nice touch, simple things like that impress me.

    I plan on testing this as best as possible and using it the most.

    It'll be interesting to see how lot to lot consistency is.



  • Well, disappointing first range day.

    It appears something is wrong, loaded rounds would not chamber. I've never had to resize new brass before loading before.

    Anyways, picture.

    JCRqtUF.jpg

    Hmm, if I'm reading the SAAMI drawing correctly spec on the neck is .299", my neck is .297"

    The brass in that area is greater then that, the dial caliber read about .297 on a loaded round and .292 on an unloaded round.

    So sizing probably won't help (I'm gonna try but expext it to not do anything.) Looks like I'll have to skim some brass off of the neck.

    Will also email the Manufacturer to see what they have to say after doing some more testing, and before turning.

    Interesting development.

    Might have got luky today, who knows what would have happened if it chambered and was fired.

    Will update with findings.



  • Did you chamber the brass before loading?

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  • @mamalukino I did not, have never had to do this with new virgin brass, always been able to load it up and go.

    Just did and unmodified new brass chambers fine.



  • Sorry you are having an issue with that new brass, let us know what turns out.

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  • Do you have the specs on your chamber? Who did the chamber/barrel job?

    Just took a spin around and it looks like quite a few chambers end up in the .296 range. I don't have any 260rem handy, but OD on a loaded 6.5CM with hornady brass measures .290.

    Will be a good idea to see what Travis has to say, as I know he's got a couple 260 reamers around. Usually you're going to want at least 5-6 thousandths of clearance on no-turn chambers I would think.

    Do you have a ball micrometer so you can check the thickness of the neck?



  • Data achieved.

    Right so what I did.

    First even though I didn't think it was the cause of the issue I measured a fired case (Prime Ammo) for heads pace and compared it to the new unfired brass. Fired case was 1.625 new brass was 1.618 so we were good there.

    Then I took a measurement of the brass neck as is, .291"

    Ran that up onto a K&M expander mandala (.264 diameter same as a bullet) and expanded the case. Measured it again .296

    Ran that piece through a FL sizing die, then seated a 140 Hornady AMAX, measured the neck near the junction and got .297, near the top I got .292, and in the middle-ish area of the neck (where I measured when I first loaded these rounds to make sure everything was hunky dory) I got .295

    So the necks appear to be thicker near the bottom, vs the top.

    To thick for my gun which has a .297" neck spec, but within the SAAMI Spec, where the reamer is .299 and a loaded round is .297

    Interesting result.

    Looks like I'll have to turn the necks, a pain but at least I'll be able to find out how concentric the neck thickness is, as I don't have a tool to measure it, but do have a turner.

    I just wish that K&M expander mandala was .262 diameter so I wouldn't have to resize my cases.



  • @orkan it is a .297" neck, Travis should have all the specs since he's the one who spun up the barrel. 260 Tactical reamer.

    I do not have a ball mic, it's on the to be purchased list.



  • @rhyno said:

    @orkan it is a .297" neck, Travis should have all the specs since he's the one who spun up the barrel. 260 Tactical reamer.

    I do not have a ball mic, it's on the to be purchased list.

    Sounds like she's thick! If a loaded round is measuring out at .299, and you have a .297 chamber, you'll have to turn em down to .292 or so to get happy I think.

    I will be interested to hear what Peterson has to say about this. That brass would be too thick even in a saami chamber, as you pointed out. .002-.003 clearance isn't enough for a field rifle.



  • @orkan well a loaded round at the thickest I found was .297

    Which is the max spec on a SAAMI loaded round (if I'm reading the picture right) and max SAAMI chamber was .299 so .003 clearence.

    Ah well, I'm gonna make dinner and eat then shoot them an Email, they have been prompt in my talking with them in the past.

    I'll wait to see what they say then turn the necks. Luckily I have some loaded rounds (Hornady brass) ready to go since it's supposed to be nice this weekend. Always have a backup plan.



  • @mamalukino it is a bit inconvenient, but at the same time it let's me see what Peterson Cartridge Company will do.



  • @rhyno
    It sounds like there may be a possibility of the brass being thicker at the neck shoulder junction.
    See how good their CS is.

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  • That's disappointing to see the brass come in that over-thick condition.
    Your chamber is indeed a .297 neck. For a field gun I like to see .004-.005" clearance with a minimum of .003".
    Given the .297 loaded diameter, that brass is running .0165" wall thickness on the neck. The thickest that you'll see most any brass is .015".
    I'm curious to hear what you find as far as the concentricity of the necks.
    This is the tubing mic that I use when I have to turn necks. I prefer the pin style over the ball style. Yeah, it's cheap, but I don't use it every day or even every month so I'll stick my Mitutoyo, Starrett, and Brown & Sharpe money into more important measuring equipment.
    http://www.shars.com/products/measuring/micrometers/0-1-tube-micrometer

    I'd shoot for a .014" neck wall thickness when you turn to give you a .292" loaded diameter. Do make sure to go seat a bullet in your first couple turned case to verify that you're getting the proper measurement before turning your whole batch of brass.

    Best of luck, let us know how it goes!

    Travis



  • @tscustoms well if you use it, it must be okay, I was gonna save for a Starrett but I guess this will work.

    Thanks.



  • Update.

    For some reason my first email did not go through, or got caught in the spam filter or something.

    Anyways emailed them again this morning and got a reply in 15 minutes or so.

    They offered a full refund and to take the brass back, if I wanted to. I told them I'd keep it and just turn the necks.

    They also thanker me for making them aware of my issue, they stated the rifle they tested with was a Tika in 269, so I'm guessing it was a SAAMI speced rifle so it probably did have any issues. (Saami spec is I believe .299 so they would have had .002" clearance)

    Anyways the tube micrometer should arrive today, and tonight I'll start turning some necks.



  • Thanks for the update. Looking forward to hearing what you see in the way of concentricity in the necks.



  • @rhyno said:

    They offered a fI'll refund and to take the brass back, if I wanted to. I told them I'd keep it and just turn the necks.

    Hmm... not sure what I think of that response. If a guy can't count on the brass being right, that is probably going to hurt their sales a bit, considering they are trying to compete with lapua.

    I'll keep an eye on them with interest. My first try with them is probably going to be 375CT if/when they have it, since I'm happy with my sources for other cartridges at present.



  • Well the tube mic came.

    Seems like a nice unit.

    But I was called to substitue for a bowling team so no turning tonight.

    But a quick measurement of 1 case. (Approximate measurement locations)

    12: .0164
    1: .0164
    2: .0173
    3: .0182
    4: .0189
    5: .0178
    6: .0178
    7: .0177
    8: .0174
    9: .0166
    10: .0169
    11: .0163

    .0173 avg
    .0189 high
    .0164 low
    .0025 ES

    Again, never measured this before so I have no idea how it compares.

    .0173+.0173+.264= .2986 no Bueno for a .297 speced neck. Or even a .299 SAAMI speced neck.

    When I neck turn I'll do one and take a few pictures so you can see the thickness changes.



  • @rhyno Ooofty. That's a lot of difference in neck wall thickness.



  • @tscustoms said:

    @rhyno Ooofty. That's a lot of difference in neck wall thickness.

    Indeed. Even if that stuff was small enough diameter to get into your chamber, that's still plenty out of whack.



  • Ok, well it's time to neck turn.

    I'll be using a K&M neck turning tool, this tool has marks on the cutting bit and each mark advances the bit by about .0002” (after doing this, i noticed that these marking are off a bit, that's why if you do the math things are not coming out)

    doing some quick math, .297-.264= .033” I want .005” of clearance so .033”-.005”=.028”/2=.014” So the target goal is to turn the necks down to a thickness of about .014”

    This is after the first cut, just really setting the depth here.

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    Moved the cutter in about .0006” and this is the result, Taking a little off of the bottom.

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    Moved the cutter in about .0006”

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    Moved in another .0006” and took some more off of the bottom, You can start to notice the difference side to side now.

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    Moved in another .0006” and the neck is almost completely uniform now, just a little bit at the very edge of the neck. Again a little variation side to side. Neck thickness right now is about .0159” so still a ways to go.

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    Moved in .0008” and the neck is now completely uniform, only the chamfered bit on the end is not shiny.

    Since it's uniform now I decided not to take any more pictures, moved the tool in incremental until .014” neck thickness was achieved.

    Then I seated a bullet, and measured the total neck, and came up with ~.292” (My micrometer seemed to have run off, so I had to use a dial caliper until I find wherever I set it last)

    So now I just have to do 99 more and it will be good to go!



  • Something to keep you occupied on those cold winter nights....BRRRrrrrr :smile:

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  • Turned necks are a lot of work, but they sure are pretty!!!

    With that 260 shoulder, you'll want to keep an eye on brass growth, as that non-uniform thickness no doubt carries down into the shoulder and as you fire/size... it will move out toward the mouth. (unless you are using a neck die, then you're just going to have a donut that isn't round either) ;)



  • I FL size, bumping everything back a little bit.

    So I will have to keep an eye on things.

    And yes turned necks do look pretty.



  • I decided sonce the load I have with 140 BTHPS is good with the hornady brass is try something new with this brass.

    The's arrived today, took awhile to find someone that had them in stock.
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  • We've only played with those 143 ELD's a little bit. So far we aren't super impressed... but much more testing is required.



  • @orkan interesting, lots of variance?

    These are just the 140 ELDM, and they look identical to the 140 AMAX as far as I can tell, and I've had good luck with them in the past.



  • @rhyno said:

    @orkan interesting, lots of variance?

    These are just the 140 ELDM, and they look identical to the 140 AMAX as far as I can tell, and I've had good luck with them in the past.

    Just not shooting that well. We've experienced the same thing with the Amax's too. The lot-to-lot consistency just wasn't super awesome. If a guy was going for 1/2-3/4 MOA, you could be very happy with the amax's, and by the looks of it these new eld's. If you were going for 1/4moa or better, it was tough to get a lot of amax's that would behave. Given their price, this was always acceptable. They want about $5 more a box for these ELD's... and when you consider what you can buy 142SMK's or Berger 140VLD's/Hybrids for, it's tough to gamble on the ELD's.

    As I mentioned, it's all about what your goals are however. I've been able to prove that the hornady bullets just don't shoot as well as the Berger's in quite a few of my rifles. Doesn't mean the hornady's shoot "bad" per say. It just means they don't shoot well enough for me. Yet I still buy and shoot lots of hornady bullets, because I have different goals with some of my rifles. My 17 remington loves the 25gr Amax... and boy does that stuff make a mess of vermin!



  • I see, I can't remember what the last 140 AMAXs I bought were priced at, but these were 29.95 some places had them for a little cheaper but no stock.

    I am interested in the X version for hunting since Nosler can't keep the ABLR in stock.

    3/4-1/2 moa is fine for me now, nor sure I'm capable of better.



  • Well I finally got done turning all the necks.

    Trimmed them all to about .014", and a bunch (probably the majority) still had dull spots indicating the cutter never touched them.

    I measured on of the worst pieces and it measures about .013"

    That is disappointing that there was that much variation.



  • Yeah, that's rough. They are going to have to do better than that if they intend to compete with lapua.



  • I have a question about the thickness differences in an individual case.
    Doesn't that thickness difference continue through the neck and shoulder into the case body? I would think that could possibly lead to concentricity issues causing excessive run-out.
    Am I misguided in this thinking?

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  • @mamalukino I don't know the answer as I have never tested it.

    I would assume that the thickness differences would be present in the main body, and shoulder.

    And I was thinking about this earlier as well, but I don't know that it would cause any issues past the neck.

    My thinking is the neck thickness being off will cause issues in a couple ways, the thick side might not open up to release the bullet, and the round will be off going into the chamber.

    But on the body, only the outside dimensions matter, the insides being off pribably won't effect how the powder burns, and since you're not expanding it with something (like a bullet or expander tool) it shouldn't be off unless your die is off.

    I dunno, I can only theorize.



  • Mostly correct above.

    As the brass gets more firings on it, non-uniformities in the shoulder will work their way up into the neck.



  • Update, Finally got out to do the Max Charge ladder, and weird stuff I cannot explain happened.

    So loads were
    41.5-46 Grains Of H4350
    CCI 200 primers
    140 ELDm bullets seated .010" short of lands

    First shot 41.5 grain charge went well, actually almost hit what I was aiming at which was nice since its zeroed for a different load, then I went to eject bolt pulled up fine, but it stuck a little bit pulling it back. Weird, inspected the round and didn't see any pressure signs.

    Second shot 42 grain charge weight no issues with extraction or anything, Inspected round no pressure signs.

    Third shot 42.5 grain charge weight again, bolt lifted normal, but I went to pull back and it stuck, Inspected the round no signs of pressure, primers looked good, no ejector swipe.

    Fourth shot 43 grain charge weight, bolt lift was normal, but round wouldn't extract gave it a little tap with my palm and it popped right out, Minor ejector swipe hard to see really, primers looked good.

    That was enough for me, I felt either I was missing something, or something was wrong, either way I decided not to push my luck any farther.

    Got back home with some better light, and still don't see anything wrong with the brass as far as pressure signs, checked the length and they were still under trim length, primers still had rounded edges, ejector swipe barely visible on the last round fire only.



  • Try putting the brass back into the chamber. They should just slide in and out; if they do not it could be the result of the difference in case thickness causing banana-ing.

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  • 1fer0Jf.jpg

    The picture is interesting. Quite a bit of difference, no doubt this is the problem, a sign of over pressure?

    The 42.5 grain load chambers fine, and extracts fine, but the 42 grain load is hard to chamber and extract.

    And why wasn't there any other pressure signs...

    41.5 is a starting load listed in Hodgdons.

    Compared to Lapua, I just added water to them both Lapua holds 56 grains of water and the Peterson is 54.2



  • Does that stretched area go completely around the case?

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  • Smaller internal volume will require loads to be stepped down to avoid pressure typically.



  • @mamalukino yes.

    @orkan yes, 2 grains of water doesn't seem like much, but it must be.

    This would mean pressure first occurred at 42 grains. Should have thrown the chrono on to see if velocity was up.



  • @rhyno said:

    @mamalukino yes.

    @orkan yes, 2 grains of water doesn't seem like much, but it must be.

    This would mean pressure first occurred at 42 grains. Should have thrown the chrono on to see if velocity was up.

    http://www.700rifle.com/forum/20-handloading-techniques/871-brass-capacity-308-win-brass-laupa-federal-brass.html

    There's some numbers I found on a quick search based on 308 brass. There you can see the capacity was about 1.5gr of water different between the two. It is commonly stated as a good idea, and I agree with this, that you should reduce the charge about 1.5-2.5gr of powder, and then work back up. So, given how thick this brass is, and how much smaller the internal volume, I would absolutely think that you'd need to reduce the load a couple grains before you'd run back into a good pressure zone again.



  • @orkan interesting I just grabbed the 44 grain charge weight and shook it, and can still hear the powder shake.

    Not that that means much, still room in there to shake is all.

    I guess I would worry that going down to far could create a dangerous situation as well.



  • I wouldn't be too concerned about that. You have to cut the case fill down to well below 50% before that becomes an issue, and you are way far away from that. Secondarily, this is usually only an issue where guys are running very slow powders in overbore cases without enough primer to ignite reliably. See that recent thread I started on using the right primer. Upon firing, some of the powder flash-burns, sending the bullet into the lands, but not driving it in motion down the barrel... then the powder actually ignites, and boom. This is most commonly found in wildcats where guys are running long barrels and a slow powder, trying to get all kinds of zoom.

    Working with components that have not been really "figured out" all the way by the industry can go like this. You just have to go slow, use your head, and pay attention to details.

    Pressure is pressure. It will show up somewhere. If it's not in the form of ejector wipe/ring, primer flattening/cratering, or excessive case dimensions/lack of springback... then it may show up on the chrono. Yet, if it's not showing up on the brass, then the brass is doing it's job, and you can get whatever FPS it wants to hand to you!



  • This is bad news for me. I heard about the brass on the reloading podcast then again on the precision rifle podcast in late 2015. Both podcasts spoke highly of the brass and had a representative from the company talk about the processing and quality control. I added some to my Christmas list and received a couple hundred cases. I had planned to start loading it in late spring. Guess I'll pull some out and measure it a little.



  • thats what i was just thinking as i read through this thread, looking over my shoulder at my 50 count box of 308 thats unopened on the shelf..... might stay that way.



  • I think it's worth checking your own, maybe I got a bad batch, I don't know.

    I'm hoping to shoot the ocw test I loaded up.



  • So here are the results of the OCW I ran today.

    It was coldish 36 when i started 48 or so when I ended, 16 MPH winds comeing from the 10:30 to 12 o-clock, gusting to 20 ish or so.

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    Some pretty good groups in there!

    I'm thinking splitting 39.2 and 39.6 and seeing whats going on there. POIs are similar.

    The low impact on 38 was a flier, the wind kicked up and blew some sand in my eye about the same time i broke the shot, I wouldn't doubt that there is a lower node between 37.6 and 38 as well.

    @Orkan what are you thinking?



  • Those around 40gr are looking good. I would be curious to reshoot something like 40.0, 40.2, and 40.4. Make sure you're rear support is consistent shot to shot.


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