Update on this.
After about two additional months of adjusting and testing, here is where we are:
The threading of the 3x Germanium magnifier on the front was successful The front magnifier can now be screwed on tight and that enables the patrol to be shot with a 3x on the front. To our knowledge, this is the first time, this has been possible. The 3x magnifiers that are sold for the Patrol only work as clipons for observing, not shooting.
The re-threading of the 3x USGI magnifier on the rear was also successful. No moment there either.
The current issue is the lens in the lens cell on the rear of the pvs-14 diopter housing (on the rear of the patrol) allows the lens to wobble enough to throw off the POI. So the support for the lens in this lens cell needs to be reworked. In order to enable the Patrol to remain in warranty, we would have to replace the 14 housing on the rear with a new "improved" housing. But that is totally possible.
So, bottomline, we now have a viable 3x G magnifier on the front that can convert the patrol into a patrol with a 3x magnifier that can be shot successfully. Because the patrol inherently looses zero if you turn the focus knob after zeroing, we want to add a clip that will prevent the focus ring from moving. This can be removed if the patrol will be used mostly as a spotter. But if the patrol is to be used as a scope then the clipon can be added. My patrol has two raised silver dots on both sides of the focus ring that enable me to return the focus ring to that point (just a bit shy of the infinity focus). So basically to use the patrol as a scope, you set the focus to infinity (or slightly short of infinity) and then zero and don't touch the focus ring. That has always been true for the patrols and still is. But we will be able to provide a locking widget to prevent it from moving if desired.
So the journey continues!!
@kansas What I said was, some scopes diopter adjustment will drastically affect the rest of the prescription in the scope. I did have several customers whom had nightforce 4-16 F1's that after setting their diopter they could not get happy with the parallax performance.
In the $1k space, I use Burris XTR2 line scopes and they meet all my needs, day, night, hot, cold, rain, snow, ice, etc.
I use the scr-mil reticle ... a fancy "classic milling" reticle with useful illumination. I use on .300WM(24), 6.5G(18) and 5.56(18).
Here is the scr-mil reticle ...
And here is .300WM(24) with xtr2 5-25x scr-mil
And here is 6.5G(18) with xtr2 3-15x scr-mil
When I got them, new scopes were running around $900 to $1,100 depending on the model. Now they are about $1,000 less for new scopes.
I took a Burris AR 536 scope in a trade and the reticle was canted. I sent it to Burris and they sent me back and new scope with an uncanted reticle. So, experience with customer support is positive so far.
The xtr2 track and have a zero-stop, though you need allen wrench to set the zero-stop, it is not tool-less.
@bull81 said in Rifle scopes with no focus or parallax adjustment knob:
Orkan explained it in more detail than me but my point was it’s not parallax free just like setting one at infinity. It’s not parallax free at infinity but it’s generally useable for the most part just not perfect.
This does not track with my experiences at all. It would almost always be better to set the focus/parallax for a close or median range, 100-200yds. Infinity setting will almost always make closer targets become severely out of focus or severely out of parallax. This is why optics with non-adjustable focus/parallax are permanently set 100-200yds, not infinity.
@orkan I agree the lower on the totem pole you go the better bang for your buck. Certainly the lower are a perfect budget scope for rimfire rifles which is what I've been using them as but with the exception of having a Christmas tree style reticle the don't match up to my PST which is closest to them in price range, the XTR2, or Gen1 Razor in my safe.
Depends on what you're trying to do.
If you just want to see bullet holes in paper at great distances, then a target cam is a much better purchase.
If you're trying to spot animals or call trace on misses, then a spotter can be quite handy. Reticles are great so that you can actually call in angular units. Important detail. Otherwise you're stuck guessing based on known size relationships.
Hensoldt and Swarovski spotters rule the roost. You'll have to part with serious coin to own one. Vortex, kowa, and a few other oddball brands occupy the mid range and low end.
Hmmmm... seems like marketing for a thing that, kind of isn't a thing.
Granted cheap rings will often be off center. Though quality rings, dovetail, weaver, picatinny... regardless of style... have always been centered for me, so long as it's a quality brand.
I bought one:
It’s made from pretty much plastic, but seems to work all right. With my current mounting set up I can’t get the crosshairs lined up and down so I had to edit the video.
It adds to the length of the scope on the rear, and it did touch me when shooting sometimes when I wasn’t shooting right, but it didn’t hurt or so much since the rifle is breaked and everything.
It mounts easy and you can remove most of it when it’s uneeded leaving just the mounting ring on.
It does impede my ability to adjust parallax so I wouldn’t want to run it if that’s critical.
It’s neat, the company needs to start selling mounts seperately (the rings) and getting the phone aligned is a little finicky, but seems repeatable after it’s set up.
Because there is a long tube the camera looks through you have to zoom with your phone to get the picture big enough. So quality may suffer.
Those are just some initial thoughts, in really probably not qualified (especially in the filming aspect) to be much of a judge, but I hope to use it Hunting.
I absolutely love both of my TT scopes. I originally bought a 525P for my desert tech and then when I had a 40x built I bought a 315P to match it. The 525 is great...but the 315 is awesome. Obviously not as much magnification...and I know clarity is subjective...but the 315 seems like even better glass than the 525. I wouldn't trade either though...they help make shooting enjoyable.
turrets match reticles...so no thinking there. Clicks are great...very positive. If zero needs to be adjusted it is done in seconds without tools. I don't regret the purchase of either of these scopes.
There are a few differences between the "P" and the "M" model. You will need to talk to greg about the differences as I have never seen personally an "M" model. I just knew that I wanted the scope on my 40x to match the one on my DTA.
Those look like some sweet rings.
The design is well thought out and as Hypo said "Everything appears to have a nice fillet or chamfer".
I doubt that the screw needs to be completely removed and the springs will probably facilitate installation and removal by moving the steel side plate out of the way.
And besides that they are pretty.:laughing:
Here is an update on the Athlon Argos BTR 6-24X50 FFP Mil/Mil scope.
I now have 554 rounds through my rifle with this scope without a hiccup.
I would buy it again as I have had no issues with it other than the grease change in the turrets...
Most of those rounds were dialed up and down to varying distances up to 570 yards.
The turrets require paying attention as they are not the most audible or tactile out there; however, they are accurate.
For the price these scopes are an excellent choice to get you out shooting as you save up for the Tier 1 glass.
Been thinking about this awhile.
I don't think I've ever seen a range finding laser with my NVGs....
I wonder if this "new" laser can defeat or trick counter laser systems on tanks, because the only real use I can see for something this powerful is for spotting for artillery.
Thank you for taking the time to go find the truth. I've said it for years, but it's apparent to me that it often doesn't sink in unless you spend the time required to find out yourself. For some reason some people just have a hard time taking things I say at face value.
If you look at some better scopes you'll get an even better representation of what I was talking about. Kahles, USO, vortex genII razor, S&B, TT, etc. The moral of the story is exactly what I've been saying for years, in that quality FFP optics are capable of doing nearly everything a SFP optic can, and with an illuminated reticle the exceptions to that rule are very few and relegated to specific circumstances. Though just as you say, the SFP scopes can NOT do everything the FFP scopes can.
There are specific models in each camp, SFP and FFP, which are designed around a specific purpose. Though the underlying trend remains the same: The intended application determines what is best chosen. Why spend $4000 on a top end FFP optic for a benchrest rifle which will only EVER be fired at fixed distances, with sighters allowed, on a square range? A cheaper SFP optic with finer adjustments would be the correct choice. Conversely, a field capable long range rifle of ANY variety will ALWAYS be best paired with an FFP optic.
I'm sure youre right, maybe on the original rifle when you bought it? I'm sure it added a few bucks to my 40x
If I had the choice of two identical rifles like your new 22, one that said USMC and one that didn't, I'd go USMC- because like you say, it looks cool. I'm not sure how much more I'd be willing to pay for it though.
It has value to someone.
How do you make a marine kill himself?
Throw a shovel of sand at a brick wall and tell him to hit the beach.
I like those wide brimmed hats with a formable wire in the brim so that they hold shape.
The Rimfire match is in the morning and facing East.
Two solutions here.
Three if you get hit in the head hard enough.
That is the Champions Choice warehouse behind me in the flip up clip on blind pictures.
They have all the do dads the smallbore shooters use.
Ice all blows to the head if you can.
I have a Burris FastFire III on a Ruger 22/45. I got this setup primarily for my wife but she doesn't really get out much. I sneak it to the range once and a while and can't get home without putting 200 rounds through it. The Burris has been great for plinking. Easy to turn on and flip through brightness options. Haven't had any issues with reliability or function. I only have 2 complaints:
The optic sits a little high. It is mounted to a rail on top of the 22/45. Still fast to acquire but a little different feel than lower iron sights.
Now I want to get an optic for all of my pistols.
The thing is, it's already really easy to shoot stuff at distances which tech like that works. If you run the numbers on a 600yd firing solution for most cartridges, you'll see that the numbers don't change much even in temperature extremes. This is obviously quite dependent upon cartridge choice, as a 308 is going to show more environmentally induced variance than a 7LRM. Even the lowly 308 isn't affected much in those short ranges. It doesn't take much to throw a drop chart inside your scope cap and you can effectively accomplish about the same thing as these units do.
There is a utility in knowing the exact range at the push of a button though. That is super handy when a guy is out hunting. When combined with 6x magnification, you'll need a larger sized target, such as a deer or something to make the system work to its potential. A coyote looks pretty small at 500yds on 6x, and there's no telling if it will actually work at those ranges on a target such as that. Time will tell!
It sounds like the ammount of people who pre ordered is huge. I don't expect to see many available until next year.
Perhaps vortex is going to be able to meet demand now, since they are doing this all in house... but I wouldn't hold my breath either. I've got S&B's for my rimfires... so I'm not in a big hurry. ;)
Now the question, do I want an ELCAN in a few months, or an Aimpoint T-2 Rright now?
Kind of depends on the purpose of the rifle. Obviously for close range work, a red dot is a red dot. T2's are tiny, and tough. They don't cross over into the mid range territory at all though.
Elcan Specter DR 1x/4x is the ultimate rifle sight for rifles that require close and intermediate capability. I've used the bdc in my elcan to engage targets out to 800yds, and it will do 500yds with boring regularity.
If you'd like to talk it out or pick one up sometime, just give me a call. :)